What makes a "drivers' circuit?"

[beelsebob]

High speed corners, where the drivers "balls" are evident. Think eau rouge and 130R, leading into Turkeys turn 8 complex.
If you have the undulations that andrew mentioned with these highspeed corners you get the added challenge of taking these blind.
Tabac of monaco, is also a magnificent challenge, a few inches out and you stack the car.
In all I would say High speed tracks are more likely to be drivers tracks because of the way it "flows".

Aren't 130R and Eau Rouge flat out these days? Where's the challenge in that?

Eau Rouge was barely flat last year. This year's cars are distinctly less downforcy, I would expect that it won't be any more. It certainly won't be flat with the DRS open.

[raymondu999]

It certainly won't be flat with the DRS open.

Never say never. Abbey and the first two corners of the Maggotts-Becketts complex were flat with DRS open for the Bulls in 2011 quali.

[dren]

Agreed, the cars make more downforce this year than last year.

Suzuka is a drivers' circuit. Technical, challenging, rewarding. Monaco is more ballsy. Both circuits show driver tallent more than others. I love Spa as well, my favorite track. I think the Austin track is going to be one of the better ones. The layout and undulation looks great.

[beelsebob]

Agreed, the cars make more downforce this year than last year.

No, they really don't. Qualifying times have been faster at tracks with decent lengthen straights because of DRS and KERS. At downforce circuits they've been slower.
At Hungary, Vettel's pole time was 1.1 seconds slower than last year's. Why? Because the track is all about high downforce.

[raymondu999]

It doesn't make sense that this year would make more DF. At the earliest, they would equal Bahrain 2010 levels by Brazil 2011 methinks. But like I said; Mark Webber's pole lap in Silverstone, he used DRS for Abbey and the first left and right of the Maggotts complex. Go figure.

[godlameroso]

LMP cars go flat through Eau Rouge, but Puhon is a real mans curve, even more so before they put the tarmac run-off. In an F1 car, you're approaching downhil at approximately 260kph, and you barely tap the brakes. It's one of the fastest non flat out corners in the calendar. I agree that the cars have less DF than last year, they lost almost 60% of the diffuser area available last year. Just the diffuser alone is 30% shallower than last year, plus no DDF.

[ESPImperium]

Drivers circuits are where there is multiple lines thru multiple corners - Hungaroring, Sepang, Interlagos and Red Bull Ring are in this section. Theese tracks are generally short or shorter than the norm and have a long race distance in terms of laps.

Mans circuits are to me ones where there are flat out corners that entice you to take a chance, gamble or bust in another chliche. Id put Silverstone, Spa, Nurburgring and Istanbul in this section. They generally have fast straights, and a good section where if you gamble on that lap you could make up to half a second up easily on the guy in front or gain in quali.

There are a few hybrid tracks on the callander for me, China has its manly section and its drivers section, Catalunia has that charicteristic as well.

The rest, appart from Bahrain, Monza and Montreal (all theese three are all stop start tracks due to their straight/hairpin/straight/chichane et-al layout) are all just piss poor tracks to me, they just dont have any rythm to them, Valencia has no rythm, same with Abu Dhabi and Korea, Singapore has a bit of rythm but is just not my type of track. Austrailia has a rythm, but needs a decent overtaking zone as the straights are just too short for me. Suzuka is a really technichal track, a test to see if you are a real all round good driver i think.

My favrouite tracks are as follows:

Bahrain, Sepang, Monaco (whe i can tame it), Istanbul (i have a Massa 2006-2008 style hold over that track), Silverstone, Spa, Nurburgring, Monza and Interlagos. All from a sim racers point of view.

[N12ck]

a drivers circuit, look at rowrah kart track, now thats a drivers circuit

http://www.cumbriakrc.co.uk/index.php?o ... &Itemid=48

[godlameroso]

Drivers circuits are where there is multiple lines thru multiple corners - Hungaroring, Sepang, Interlagos and Red Bull Ring are in this section. Theese tracks are generally short or shorter than the norm and have a long race distance in terms of laps.

Mans circuits are to me ones where there are flat out corners that entice you to take a chance, gamble or bust in another chliche. Id put Silverstone, Spa, Nurburgring and Istanbul in this section. They generally have fast straights, and a good section where if you gamble on that lap you could make up to half a second up easily on the guy in front or gain in quali.

There are a few hybrid tracks on the callander for me, China has its manly section and its drivers section, Catalunia has that charicteristic as well.

The rest, appart from Bahrain, Monza and Montreal (all theese three are all stop start tracks due to their straight/hairpin/straight/chichane et-al layout) are all just piss poor tracks to me, they just dont have any rythm to them, Valencia has no rythm, same with Abu Dhabi and Korea, Singapore has a bit of rythm but is just not my type of track. Austrailia has a rythm, but needs a decent overtaking zone as the straights are just too short for me. Suzuka is a really technichal track, a test to see if you are a real all round good driver i think.

My favrouite tracks are as follows:

Bahrain, Sepang, Monaco (whe i can tame it), Istanbul (i have a Massa 2006-2008 style hold over that track), Silverstone, Spa, Nurburgring, Monza and Interlagos. All from a sim racers point of view.

Korea has some killer high speed turns in sector two, and sector three is very flowing, and some curves are deceptively fast. Singapore, although mostly slow, has some ballsy curves, turn 3, the singapore sling and this year the last curve will be very challenging due to the decreased downforce.

[HampusA]

Eau Rouge was barely flat last year. This year's cars are distinctly less downforcy, I would expect that it won't be any more. It certainly won't be flat with the DRS open.

Eau Rouge has been flat for years. Eau rouge really isn´t that big of a deal anymore in dry conditions.
there´s also no such thing as barely flat. Either the right foot is planted or it´s not.

I also feel there are two different ways of looking at "driver´s tracks"

Monaco and Suzuka are both driver tracks.
One because of the skills it takes to hustle an F1 car around city streets.

the other because it´s driving heaven. My guess would be over 90% of the drivers would claim that Suzuka is at the top of the list in terms of driver enjoyment.

You really have to try the track in a sim or in real life to understand the beauty of it.
Same with Nordschleife which is abit of both (arguably Suzuka is aswell)

SPA is also a very nice track track to drive and it requires alot of skill to be quick there.
The track is so long so the gap between a good driver vs a bad one will be greater there.

[HampusA]

LMP cars go flat through Eau Rouge, but Puhon is a real mans curve, even more so before they put the tarmac run-off. In an F1 car, you're approaching downhil at approximately 260kph, and you barely tap the brakes. It's one of the fastest non flat out corners in the calendar. I agree that the cars have less DF than last year, they lost almost 60% of the diffuser area available last year. Just the diffuser alone is 30% shallower than last year, plus no DDF.

Yea i think with a good car let´s say Mclaren, RBR or Ferrari you just lift into Pouhon.

Blanchimont is another corner that´s easy flat nowadays.

[beelsebob]

Eau Rouge was barely flat last year. This year's cars are distinctly less downforcy, I would expect that it won't be any more. It certainly won't be flat with the DRS open.

Eau Rouge has been flat for years. Eau rouge really isn´t that big of a deal anymore in dry conditions.
there´s also no such thing as barely flat. Either the right foot is planted or it´s not.

I never quite got why people go on about whether Eau rouge is taken flat or not being the big thing... The big thing is that it has a habit of multiplying errors. If you get your entry even slightly too far to the left it's no longer flat, in fact, by the exit it's a a downshift and hope you're not going very fast into a gravel trap. The margin for error is narrow, you have to have absolute belief that you can position the car absolutely right absolutely every time, or this happens:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMQpjgbd3u0[/youtube]
Then you walk back to the pits, say "beat that" and this happens:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELI44M0pU6I[/youtube]

[HampusA]

You mentioned it. Not me. It´s been flat for years. The mystique is gone.
Sure it will send you on a trip if you somehow get it wrong but it´s not what it used to be.

Eau Rouge will be easy flat this year aswell. Even though F1 cars of today doesn´t produce as much DF as the cars a 1-2-3 years back it´s still producing enormous amounts of DF.

[beelsebob]

You mentioned it. Not me. It´s been flat for years. The mystique is gone.
Sure it will send you on a trip if you somehow get it wrong but it´s not what it used to be.

Eau Rouge will be easy flat this year aswell. Even though F1 cars of today doesn´t produce as much DF as the cars a 1-2-3 years back it´s still producing enormous amounts of DF.

Actually, Gerhard Burger mentioned it.

[raymondu999]

I wonder. Are we seeing a new driver's circuit in Singapore? Other than Glock, Rosberg and Webber (2 of whom which are grand prix winners who are traditionally very quick at Monaco) only champions have stood up on the podium IIRC. Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, then those 3.