What makes a "drivers' circuit?"

[raymondu999]

Hey all. Just a point of interest which I never understood here. What is it that makes a circuit a driver's circuit? We have circuits (most notably, Monaco) where they are known to be a "driver's circuit," where the driver makes up for a lot of difference. What characteristic in the track is it that does this? Earlier on in the year, someone told me that Hungary was also a driver circuit. Why is it that something like say Monaco, is a circuit where drivers can make a difference, but say, China or Istanbul can't? I mean, we see the qualifying and the laptimes for every track on the calendar and there are always different laptimes for each driver, even among teammates, so the driver still has to count for something surely?

Thanks

[rich1701]

Any circuit that isn't designed by Herman Tilke?...

In truth it is a track that has characteristics that diminish other factors that usually have the most influence on lap time such as aerodynamics or straight line speed. At Monaco, mechanical grip takes precedent so how a driver handles traction and braking is enhanced as an influencing performance factor.

Spa used to be a drivers circuit when aerodynamics did not allow drivers to go flat through Eau Rouge and when blanchimont was not flattened to make it easier. The drivers could be brave and make up some lap time, but not so much now.

[mx_tifoso]

Downforce?

[xpensive]

A railway crossing, two wooden bridges and a viaduct passing, THIS was a driver's circuit, far away from Tilkes ideas of a track!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longford_Circuit

[andrew]

I think Spa is the ultimate drivers circuit.

Fast, undulating, fast corners, slow corners, passing places and not much room for error.

Longford Circuit:

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

High speed corners, where the drivers "balls" are evident. Think eau rouge and 130R, leading into Turkeys turn 8 complex.
If you have the undulations that andrew mentioned with these highspeed corners you get the added challenge of taking these blind.
Tabac of monaco, is also a magnificent challenge, a few inches out and you stack the car.
In all I would say High speed tracks are more likely to be drivers tracks because of the way it "flows".

[Chaparral]

Andrew heres a good video of the Longford circuit in Tasmania used for the Tasman Series in the 60s very much like Rheims but much more dangerous - the vids from 1964.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAbR9jxrnVQ

[raymondu999]

I get why Suzuka and Monaco are both driver circuits. Monaco; if you are over the limit for one bit you're into the wall; so you're either underdriving or on the limit; and the drivers that are better will have more confidence that they can go into the corners on the limit while the others will not. In Suzuka, you can gain loads of time in Dengers, so you have to be on the limit there; yet if you're over the limit, you can go off. Also, a single mistake or misalignment in the Esses will carry through for the rest of the Esses.

But why Spa; and Hungary? I don't get what it is that makes those two driver circuits.

[Jeffsvilleusa]

Not answering your question, but I think Singapore can be considered a drivers circuit from sheer volume of corners per lap- like Nordschliefe (ever thought those two circuits would be compared?), the aggregate of errors or lack therof is more evident through the lap.

It may be semantics, but I guess there are two types of "drivers circuits," one where the driver makes more difference than usual, and the other is simply a circuit that drivers like.

[raymondu999]

Yep I brought that up before too. In another thread. This is talking of your first definition

[Lurk]

Hungaroring has some blind turns due to the elevation and lots of turn too (16 turns for only 4.3km). You cannot take a break when you race at Mogyorod.

Spa is a "man" circuit. Turns are very fast and you need balls to take them at the limit. Thus, Spa turns are very technical. Les Combes are a fast chicane followed by a right turn : if you missed one apex, you're nowhere for the rest of this part. Then, Rivage is going downard. Pouhon is a long double left and Fagnes is a difficult Right-Left to take.
Before V8 era Eau Rouge was very technical too but now you can take it flatout so it is not as challenging as before..

[raymondu999]

I could be hideously wrong here as I have never truly driven truly blind corners anywhere. But why would a blind corner test a driver? It sounds more like a test of memory rather than a test of driving skill; and a lot of those corners have bollards placed at them anyways

[Harvey]

To me, the "drivers circuits" always seem more organic than the ones that are simply "circuits". They remind me of how a good ol' fashioned British "B road" flows and follows the contours of the land, rather than blasting through it like a motorway does.

[Mandrake]

I'm pretty much with you Ray. I don't think there are many tracks that should be considered a driver's circuit....

Monaco is pretty much a track that leaves no room for errors, but in recent years there haven't been too many clashes..it was way worse in the 90s for example.

Then Spa: Today it's more like whose car is best through the corners.....I believe it's more challenging to take Eau Rouge full throttle in a Virgin than in a RedBull. Does that mean the Virgin drivers have bigger balls?

On any circuit you shouldn't make a mistake, on some you are punished more than on others, but I don't think this should be influencing the decision about a driver's circuit!

[Gerhard Berger]

High speed corners, where the drivers "balls" are evident. Think eau rouge and 130R, leading into Turkeys turn 8 complex.
If you have the undulations that andrew mentioned with these highspeed corners you get the added challenge of taking these blind.
Tabac of monaco, is also a magnificent challenge, a few inches out and you stack the car.
In all I would say High speed tracks are more likely to be drivers tracks because of the way it "flows".

Aren't 130R and Eau Rouge flat out these days? Where's the challenge in that?

Fast corners will get dominated by cars with good aero - not much the driver can do there.