Will Red Bull dominate F1?

[CMSMJ1]

Why does F1 not being their core business make them any worse at F1?

To me, it means that Reb Bull is not going to dominate F1. The team is, in my eyes, independant of the name and as such can change easily. If someone wanted to buy in and Red Bull wanted to sell then what? To dominate something you have to be there long enough.

I do not see them as staying the course long enough to win half of the next 10 titles and to be fair, you have to be going some to match the domination, from 1984, of Mclaren, Williams and Ferrari.

Saying that, if they do stay, I expect them to win again..but that will be it.

A couple of wins here and there, like Renault, does not domination make.

@ Topmba/Raptor - no personal offence meant..

[jamsbong]

personally, I think RedBull has the desire to continue to win. Next year's big difference is mainly in the tyres and KERS. Not such a big change but I think it may still be enough to stir up some surprise. Mclaren, Mercedes and Ferrari are the usual suspect to be on top of their game again.

[Gerhard Berger]

Yes i am expecting Ferrari do a miracle next season if they would call Rory Byrne. :-"

It was interesting with Byre there competing against Newey in the 90s and early 00s. Aldo Costa, his replacement, and Byrne's right hand man during the Schumacher years, is a solid designer but i don't think he's particularly good at coming up with innovative designs.

[gridwalker]

Just because F1 isn't Red Bull's core business, it doesn't mean that F1 isn't massively important to the Red Bull top brass. Buying out Jaguar was a massive step in the diversification of the Red Bull corporation and one that is indicative of a wider strategy than simply selling soft drinks.

Red Bull have not wavered in their commitment to F1, even when their investment seemed to be taking some time to pay off : Now that they have tasted success, I just see them redoubling their efforts to ensure that 2010 isn't a flash in the pan.

Dietrich Mateschitz isn't involved in so many areas just to promote Red Bull as a fizzy drink ... sure, the sponsorship and sporting events that they run will help sell one hell of a lot of cans of energy drinks, but that is underestimating what Red Bull is trying to be.

One of the primary factors in the marketing strategies of modern multinationals is that you do not sell the product : you sell the brand.

When selling a brand, you do not rely upon the relative merits of any individual product in your portfolio, but you tap in to the aspirational elements common to your target demographic by associating your brand with a lifestyle.

Dietrich Mateschitz wants the Red Bull brand to be associated with excitement, energy, youth and exhilaration. This is coming across in the rapid expansion of the Red Bull brand into extreme sports.

Once the Red Bull brand has transcended the product barrier and simply becomes associated with the values the company is trying to portray, the Red Bull brand will become exponentially more valuable. Much like the top brands on the planet (like Coke, Nintendo, Harley Davidson and Playboy) Red Bull will then be able to market their brand for the sake of the brand itself.

As a result of this, F1 is the cornerstone of the Red Bull corporate strategy : it is a truely global platform that gathers headlines faster than almost any other promotional activity ... Red Bull would be extremely foolish to waste this investment, so I see them coming back stronger and more thirsty next year.

Will they dominate? I hope not.

Are they capable? Once their car is reliable, all bets are off.

[raymondu999]

Yes i am expecting Ferrari do a miracle next season if they would call Rory Byrne. :-"

It was interesting with Byre there competing against Newey in the 90s and early 00s. Aldo Costa, his replacement, and Byrne's right hand man during the Schumacher years, is a solid designer but i don't think he's particularly good at coming up with innovative designs.

Don't forget Tombazis is at Ferrari too. I believe Tombazis used to be Newey's right hand man at McLaren, no? I could be wrong. But if he was, then they have both Rory's and Newey's right hand men

[lolzi]

Yes i am expecting Ferrari do a miracle next season if they would call Rory Byrne. :-"

It was interesting with Byre there competing against Newey in the 90s and early 00s. Aldo Costa, his replacement, and Byrne's right hand man during the Schumacher years, is a solid designer but i don't think he's particularly good at coming up with innovative designs.

Don't forget Tombazis is at Ferrari too. I believe Tombazis used to be Newey's right hand man at McLaren, no? I could be wrong. But if he was, then they have both Rory's and Newey's right hand men

Like two wrongs don't make a right, two "rights" don't make a good designer

[Raptor22]

Tomabziz was at Ferrari, moved to McLaren, then moved back again after or during SpyGate. A real dodgy character.

GridWalker, spot on re the Red Bull corporate strategy.
They do indeed sell their brand. Any sponsorship they see as a product withfull profit and loss. F1 is a little different because it currently is building the brand identity outside of softdrinks

[Gerhard Berger]

Yes i am expecting Ferrari do a miracle next season if they would call Rory Byrne. :-"

It was interesting with Byre there competing against Newey in the 90s and early 00s. Aldo Costa, his replacement, and Byrne's right hand man during the Schumacher years, is a solid designer but i don't think he's particularly good at coming up with innovative designs.

Don't forget Tombazis is at Ferrari too. I believe Tombazis used to be Newey's right hand man at McLaren, no? I could be wrong. But if he was, then they have both Rory's and Newey's right hand men

As far as i'm aware, he worked under Newey for a couple of years at Mclaren, but the majority of his career was working as an aerodynamicist under Byrne at Benetton and then Ferrari. When Byrne retired at the end of 2006, Costa was promoted to Byrne's role (technical director), and Tombazis was brought back from Mclaren to take Costa's role (chief designer). I could be wrong though.

[Richard]

My take is that RB Racing is an important part of the RB Group.

RB are not just title sponsors, nor is it a vanity exercise. To them it is a successful business with a turnover of several hundred million $ that is embedded in the overall group. Don't forget there is also RB rally and a RB young driver programme, they are in this for long term return on long term investment.

I suppose the last successful team owned & run by a non-racing business was Benetton. They did well, but disappeared. I could never figure the link between knitwear and F1 other than vanity. Whereas RB have racing embedded in their culture in a number of sports, not just motor racing.

[Raptor22]

Red bull started out as an energy drink for long distance truck drivers. In Australia they call them Road Trains. The product mission was to revitalise the mind and body so the driver can go further, perform longer and maximum ability.
See the parallel with F1?

No offense taken CMSMJ1. this is civil discussion thus far

F1 is the pinnacle of driver ability and vitality is needed at all times. Extreme concentration, focus. that what RedBull is all about. The Softdrink is just a vehicle.
Becuase f1 is the pinnacle of driving, RedBUll is likely to stayin F1 until Ditriech Mateschitz passs on or ReDBull changes corporate focus.
Right nopw they are one of the top softdrink brands in the world. Coca Cola had to meet them head with their "energy" line of drinks and Red Bull responded with Red Bull Cola.

But that pales into insignificance hen the whole Red Bull product porfolio is taken into account.

I doubt they will ever build their own engine but as a f1 team, they are likely to stay for a long while yet.

[segedunum]

Tombazis moved to McLaren from Ferrari mid-2004 and that coincided with an upturn in McLaren's fortunes. He then contributed to the exceptionally fast 2005 car with Newey when he returned to Ferrari for 2006 to become Chief Designer after Ferrari realised they needed him after a disastrous 2005.

Ferrari had better not piss in his cheerios, mark my words. If you hear he is leaving Ferrari you know who to bet against and I believe he is the only one who can get near to the technical team Red Bull have assembled.