Next best engineer after Newey

[marcush.]

+1 JT

I think Newey just excells in his current environment -he has strong support from RB engineering staff who are obviously all pulling in the same (correct) direction.

Put him in charge at Ferrari and it will be a fail methinks.

[bot6]

He also has strong monetary support from Red Bull, which helps.

[Gerhard Berger]

So how are we saying who is the best then, or that Newey is "clearly" the best. Few here even know any of the engineers at these teams other than the absolute highest level guys. Who is to say there aren't some guys under Newey who are just as sharp or better?

The cream generally rises to the top. A guy who is very talented and motivated working under Newey will eventually want to get a higher position, and if he's good, he will prove himself.

What metric are we using to gauge "best" anyway? The success of anyone... driver, crew chief, race engineer, design engineer.. is as much contingent on their surroundings as their inherent raw talent.

Well of course it is an opinion, but there are those who have produced successful cars in different environments, like Newey, hence they develop a good reputation.

Much like talking about the "best" drivers. Don't think many really paid any attention to Button until get got in the Brawn car and they started stomping people. Did Jenson's talent level streak up overnight? No. Just a function of the environment he was in. So again, how are we truly gauging "best" and how much value an engineer will bring to an organization... without really knowing crap about all these organizations?

I'm not comparing drivers. You're going down the path of a strawman argument.

There's no perfect way to gauge who is the best. Like i said, it is an opinion. You're free to use which ever method you wish.

[Just_a_fan]

@JerseyTom

Spot on. The problem seems to be that we have a celebrity culture these days - people seem to need a 'star' to focus on. F1 is a team sport - sure you need a decent driver to pedal the thing but you need a team behind that driver. Same with the Technical Director etc. Gone are the days of a Patrick Head or a Gordon Murray designing almost every nut and bolt...

Even in more obviously team sports, e.g. football, people still focus on one or two players as if they win on their own.

[Gerhard Berger]

@JerseyTom

Spot on. The problem seems to be that we have a celebrity culture these days - people seem to need a 'star' to focus on. F1 is a team sport - sure you need a decent driver to pedal the thing but you need a team behind that driver. Same with the Technical Director etc. Gone are the days of a Patrick Head or a Gordon Murray designing almost every nut and bolt...

Even in more obviously team sports, e.g. football, people still focus on one or two players as if they win on their own.

We realise that one person doesn't design the entire car. No one ever claimed that in the first place, yet for some reason there's a couple of posters who are obsessed with emphasizing this fairly obvious point.

Sure it's a team sport, but the team is made up of individuals. Certain individuals can make the team better through bringing new ideas, guiding others in the team and giving the team a good direction.

[Caito]

But.. how can you say Newey is the best if nobody has the LEAST idea which part (if any at all) did he make, or designed. Maybe he's just the team leader. Maybe he does complete sketches of the car, maybe he designs wings, or maybe not.


And.. maybe Newey is not the best. Redbull achieved greatness, but, with a lot of money.


Only the ones in the team know who does what. So it's kind of pointless trying to establish a jerarquy with no data at all, but races. Which involves whole teams, not chief designers.

[Echo]

@JerseyTom

Spot on. The problem seems to be that we have a celebrity culture these days - people seem to need a 'star' to focus on. F1 is a team sport - sure you need a decent driver to pedal the thing but you need a team behind that driver. Same with the Technical Director etc. Gone are the days of a Patrick Head or a Gordon Murray designing almost every nut and bolt...

Even in more obviously team sports, e.g. football, people still focus on one or two players as if they win on their own.

+ 1, formula 1 is a team sport. Adrian newey is a great engineer, but he can't be better than a whole team.

[Gerhard Berger]

But.. how can you say Newey is the best if nobody has the LEAST idea which part (if any at all) did he make, or designed. Maybe he's just the team leader. Maybe he does complete sketches of the car, maybe he designs wings, or maybe not.

After the Australian GP Horner said that Newey didn't want to compromise the design of the car for KERS. He's Chief Technical Officer - it's fair to say he would have a fairly significant input into the design concept of the car.

And.. maybe Newey is not the best. Redbull achieved greatness, but, with a lot of money.

Money alone is not enough (look at Ferrari in the 80s and 90s). Besides, Newey achieved alot before Red Bull anyway.

Only the ones in the team know who does what. So it's kind of pointless trying to establish a jerarquy with no data at all, but races. Which involves whole teams, not chief designers.

Read what i wrote in my previous post.

[donskar]

Maybe a slightly different attempt to answer the question would help.

Scenario: you are a VERY wealthy businessman, willing to spend the maximum allowable budget. You can hire anyone you wish. Is Newey your first choice to head your technical department? If not, who is?

NOTE: "head your technical department," NOT "design you car."

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I dont think this is an issue of modern culture seeking celebrity at all.

There is a hierarchy in all forms of life, and in F1 engineering that is no different. If anything it is amplified.
Newey sits on top, and then you have others who we havent heard of who we will eventually know. Not because they are attractive stars, but its because of their designs that led them to being top of their respective trees.

I look at James Key and see him certainly, as being one for the big teams to take a gamble on.
Where he has gone there is tangible results being achieved. And unless its co incidence, there is reason for it...ie him being good at what he does.

I look at Williams, and I see Sam Micheals as one who has so far failed to step up to the plate(talk is rife he may be seeking alternate employ). But this could also be due to other factors we are not privy to.

Perhaps the topic should be renamed, "who would best lead a technical department".

[Jersey Tom]

Well if that's what we're asking... still, comes down to knowing how they work, their philosophy, etc. I wouldn't just jump for Newey. There are a number of F1 and NASCAR folks I'd interview

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Well if that's what we're asking... still, comes down to knowing how they work, their philosophy, etc. I wouldn't just jump for Newey. There are a number of F1 and NASCAR folks I'd interview

NASCAR?

Really?

[Jersey Tom]

Yes, really. There are many engineers and technical professionals in NASCAR who work at or above the F1 level, and/or have spent time in F1 before coming back to the US.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Yes, really. There are many engineers and technical professionals in NASCAR who work at or above the F1 level, and/or have spent time in F1 before coming back to the US.

I really dont know the ins outs of NASCAR, but I dont see the correlation between the 2 disciplines other than the obvious.

[Jersey Tom]

Funny, I don't see what's fundamentally different - and become fundamentally more similar the higher up you go (technical managers, etc).