2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Chuckjr
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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True that.
Watching F1 since 1986.

OverheatedTurbo
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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When will this team fix the tyre issue? I hate that they can’t get to grips with this problem. They have been dealing with this since 2024 and there are no sign of progress. I can’t believe Ferrari understood what to do with the tyres in Zandvoort in the 2023 season, yet Merc still struggling with this and using the “extreme setup” excuse.

MB_Racer
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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OverheatedTurbo wrote:
04 Jul 2025, 03:18
When will this team fix the tyre issue? I hate that they can’t get to grips with this problem. They have been dealing with this since 2024 and there are no sign of progress. I can’t believe Ferrari understood what to do with the tyres in Zandvoort in the 2023 season, yet Merc still struggling with this and using the “extreme setup” excuse.
Tell me about so freakin frustrating !!


One weekend we win or are on the podium and then we get ridiculously beaten and finish 60s behind the winner :? #-o

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Quantum
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Sevach wrote:
04 Jul 2025, 02:00
Mclaren and Williams will get a big sealed chunk of metal and be told, "these are the operating parameters... best of luck".
That's not how I've seen it. Williams have an office inside Mercedes HPP with a combination of Williams and Merc staff.
I haven't seen a McLaren one but I was there in 2019 pre Mercedes supply.

They're embedded in the process.
"Interplay of triads"

Matt2725
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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McLaren signed a deal with Mercedes I want to say, two years ago to have more involvement in the PU development.

Waz
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Sevach wrote:
04 Jul 2025, 02:00
Quantum wrote:
03 Jul 2025, 13:33

That's provably false, as Williams scored more points in 2021 than they did in 2022 and 2020. That alone should be enough to disprove the claim.
McLaren are rinsing everyone in 2025, and beat Mercedes in 2024.
Making the cooling solution out to be some sort of massive differentiator is a view I guess, but it would be baseless.
I think engine installation is gonna be a factor next year.
Right now engines are frozen, haven't changed much since 2021, it's "easy" for a costumer to match the factory team.

Right now Mercedes engineers on both engine and chassis side are working together to better make a cohesive package, developing the cooling around the needs of their project, developing engine modes on what their simulations say.

Mclaren and Williams will get a big sealed chunk of metal and be told, "these are the operating parameters... best of luck".
First, it definitely doesn't just happen that way, they will have different deals and receive CAD files along with operating parameters that includes cooling requirements.

Your example of just being given a sealed box with a chunk of metal would actually confirm what an advantage it is to have a superior cooling system, as it offers options on chassis integration.

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Quantum
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Matt2725 wrote:
04 Jul 2025, 09:22
McLaren signed a deal with Mercedes I want to say, two years ago to have more involvement in the PU development.
I would then imagine they too would now have an office within the walls of Brixworth, just like Williams.

For years now, there's plenty of evidence(both from what we have seen, but also how they physically operate) that customers aren't treated in a dispensary fashion a la here's your lot and get on with it.
McLaren had the jump on Merc with exhaust blown diffusers developed with Brixworth.
Also, some "Williams" staff at trackside are in fact the Mercedes HPP staff who co-develop team or even driver specific maps. The assumption that Merc palm off dimensions and specs with the customer never seeing it or having actual access is illusory.

Detractors citing the Lotus 2015 example so often ignores that Grosjean popped Merc PU in it's first race due to Lotus not having optimal installation or cooling because of the late switch from Renault to Merc PU.
Lotus being cashstrapped had to opt for conservative maps and a lower customer tier than that of Williams/Force India to ensure longevity and that the team wasn't left with a fat bill year end.
Maps made available to Grosjean in the race where he defended vs Vettel (i think)were not accessible to Lotus due to a litany of issues outlined above.
If Merc want to offer that free and Lotus want to take the risk on the engine pool, that's on them.
The Phase documentation gave Lotus what they paid for. I'll try find the Cowell interview on this but it definitely resides on this forum somewhere.
"Interplay of triads"

FittingMechanics
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I guess it is natural that on a Mercedes thread most think that Mercedes will have an advantage by screwing their customers/partners for next year.

Not sure I agree. McLaren signed a deal in 2023 for 2026-2030 period. They would be fools if they don't get advance data on the engine.

Watto
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The only thing I might argue is would they prioritise a development path the Merc chassis team are heading over their competitors - did they have to change anything on the PU side to accommodate Mercedes zero pod? Memory says yes but I am not that sure on that either.

Matt2725
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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FP1 looked okay, although George reported the PU running hot. This will be the warmest day of the weekend so hopefully won't be an issue.

Still looking promising I'd say.

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Lasssept
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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@F1BigData

MB_Racer
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Matt2725 wrote:
04 Jul 2025, 14:41
FP1 looked okay, although George reported the PU running hot. This will be the warmest day of the weekend so hopefully won't be an issue.

Still looking promising I'd say.
For sure promising especially since he did his best lap very early in the session

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Quantum
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The radiator layout for the W13 predicated that HPP had to offer alternate solutions to customers.

There will be an obvious bias in resource and dev to the factory team for the entirety of the development process.
But it does not mean customers don't benefit from that or get a say in that process. It's all coordinated.
If there wasn't you wouldn't have seen Aston get their blistering start in 2023 (6 podiums in a row)and Mclaren have their revival in 2024/25.
Engines are pretty constant. I don't think anyone in their right mind would blame Astons struggles this year, Williams in 2022, or Maccas in 2022 and early 2023, on engines or the parity of supply.
"Interplay of triads"

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Lasssept
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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OverheatedTurbo
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