No, the mercedes engine is irrelevant when comparing RBR and STR.Juzh wrote:Perhaps the entire car philosophy, which currently puts them 2nd in the constructors at 332 points compared to 7th for TR at 29 points, is preventing them that. Don't you think?SectorOne wrote:Thats not a valid complaint, theres nothing stopping them from running STR levels of DF around here.
Engine is identical, you cant pull the Renault card when comparing to STR.
(for juzh)
In other words, in order to get a renault powered car anywhere near mercedes in speed traps you have to shed off so much downforce and drag to make yourself utterly uncompetitive in all but 2-3 events.
I don't get this quite right. Underpowered? From the beginning of the season, it was all our understanding that, when a circuit has long straights, that is where Renault PU struggles. China, Malaysia, Spa and Monza. Monza became an exception as RBR did performed well by going for ultra low drag setup.Juzh wrote:Underpowered renault is forcing them to compromise and massively cut DF to make them at least somewhat competitive. TR was on par with RB on 2 highly specific tracks this year and are not a good measure of renault performance at all. Not to mention TR is going for slippery car approach for years now.SectorOne wrote:And what would their complaints be?Juzh wrote:
they can.
Theyve got more DF, same Engine. STR simply did a better job.
Bottom line remains. Renault is bad, and RB with a merc engine would wipe the floor with merc similarly to what merc is doing now.
Is that a worry or a wish?Phillyred wrote: As a HAM fan I'm getting a little nervous how "well" things have gone for him lately.. I'm expecting a reliability issue to crop up somewhere!!
You must think Raikkonen an ordinary driver too. And I can't fathom how low your opinion of Mark Webber must be. Driving style and confidence in the behavior of a car plays a large part in all this. I think maybe you have oversimplified things a little. Then.... in my opinion Kvyat has been a bit overrated this season - but that is another topic.ringo wrote:Vettel starting to reveal himself as an ordinary driver.
Many drivers are very quick when the car suits them perfectly. However, the drivers that stand out above the rest are the ones that can extract the maximum or close to the maximum out of any car. This is where Kimi, Vettel and Jenson don't measure up to the likes of Alonso or Hamilton. Would I say with confidence that Alonso would have been quicker than Kimi in the 2005 McLaren or that Hamilton faster than Vettel in the 2011 Red Bull? No - maybe they would have been slower, but not by a large amount.BanMeToo wrote:You must think Raikkonen an ordinary driver too. And I can't fathom how low your opinion of Mark Webber must be. Driving style and confidence in the behavior of a car plays a large part in all this. I think maybe you have oversimplified things a little. Then.... in my opinion Kvyat has been a bit overrated this season - but that is another topic.ringo wrote:Vettel starting to reveal himself as an ordinary driver.
I've been surprised all weekend that Pirelli didn't bring the super soft tire. I mean really these are the tires we had at Spa!
It's also a shame for Bottas in Q3. He could have coasted through the last corner and still had Nico
That's a brilliant idea to spice up F1! With 10 constructors and 20 races, let each driver race each constructor's car twice during the season. Let's see who wins the WDC and the WCC.condor wrote:... if you put each of them in 10 different cars...
Yeah Kvyat overrated (what 's your reason ?) -> another topic... They explained why they didn't provide supersofts because of curve 3 become risky !BanMeToo wrote:ringo wrote:... in my opinion Kvyat has been a bit overrated this season - but that is another topic.
I've been surprised all weekend that Pirelli didn't bring the super soft tire. I mean really these are the tires we had at Spa!
Good points. I feel that Vettel has a larger operating window and is a less picky driver than Button. Suppose I don't have much to back that up (and this season actually shows a little bit of the opposite). I think we need to see another year or two of non-EBD Vettel to know more. Sorry to turn this into yin&yang.condor wrote:Many drivers are very quick when the car suits them perfectly. However, the drivers that stand out above the rest are the ones that can extract the maximum or close to the maximum out of any car. This is where Kimi, Vettel and Jenson don't measure up to the likes of Alonso or Hamilton. Would I say with confidence that Alonso would have been quicker than Kimi in the 2005 McLaren or that Hamilton faster than Vettel in the 2011 Red Bull? No - maybe they would have been slower, but not by a large amount.BanMeToo wrote:You must think Raikkonen an ordinary driver too. And I can't fathom how low your opinion of Mark Webber must be. Driving style and confidence in the behavior of a car plays a large part in all this. I think maybe you have oversimplified things a little. Then.... in my opinion Kvyat has been a bit overrated this season - but that is another topic.ringo wrote:Vettel starting to reveal himself as an ordinary driver.
I've been surprised all weekend that Pirelli didn't bring the super soft tire. I mean really these are the tires we had at Spa!
It's also a shame for Bottas in Q3. He could have coasted through the last corner and still had Nico
I can't believe that this nonsense is still floating around.Juzh wrote:RB with a merc engine would wipe the floor with merc similarly to what merc is doing now.
I don't know where to post it. Vergne has an extra retirement compared to Kvyat, yet holds far more points (and Vergne doesn't only score his points when Kvyat retires.) Additionally, Kvyat has throughout the year shown us a number of rookie errors. Let me make it clear that I do not think Kvyat is poor driver. He's definitely talented. I simply think that some have rated him too highly, and Red Bull rushed his promotion.jurinius wrote:Yeah Kvyat overrated (what 's your reason ?) -> another topic... They explained why they didn't provide supersofts because of curve 3 become risky !BanMeToo wrote:ringo wrote:... in my opinion Kvyat has been a bit overrated this season - but that is another topic.
I've been surprised all weekend that Pirelli didn't bring the super soft tire. I mean really these are the tires we had at Spa!
http://www.livef1.it/en/technique/tires ... Dlp6nWx15Q
Ordinary by F1 standards is still quite impressive.BanMeToo wrote:You must think Raikkonen an ordinary driver too. And I can't fathom how low your opinion of Mark Webber must be. Driving style and confidence in the behavior of a car plays a large part in all this. I think maybe you have oversimplified things a little. Then.... in my opinion Kvyat has been a bit overrated this season - but that is another topic.ringo wrote:Vettel starting to reveal himself as an ordinary driver.
Juzh wrote: Bottom line remains. Renault is bad, and RB with a merc engine would wipe the floor with merc similarly to what merc is doing now.
Traction is not completely dependent on car setup. Traction is partly dependent on the engine. Here are my supporting reasons -prince wrote: Traction limited circuits should be neutral to all PUs.
prince wrote: Sochi is not a circuit where Renault PU is going to be a BIG handicap. This is a hgh downforce circuit, along with one good long straight.
Kingshark wrote:I can't believe that this nonsense is still floating around.Juzh wrote:RB with a merc engine would wipe the floor with merc similarly to what merc is doing now.
Mercedes has wiped the floor with Red Bull at every circuit from Monaco to Monza this season.