2025 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 13 - 15

[chrisc90]

https://www.veed.io/view/c4af4c6a-7cb1- ... anel=share

Not sure if that will share, but its Russell's time behind the Safety car.

Thanks for the video! I really don’t see how GR could get penalised here !??

I mean you can see George filling the safety car, then looking in his mirror twice and slowing down sharply. You can see his head throwing forwards and the lap telemetry backs the braking up (no other braking behind the safety car).
Not to mention dropping more than 10 car lengths behind the safety car, something Perez was penalised for previously.

[MB_Racer]

https://www.veed.io/view/c4af4c6a-7cb1- ... anel=share

Not sure if that will share, but its Russell's time behind the Safety car.

Thanks for the video! I really don’t see how GR could get penalised here !??

I mean you can see George filling the safety car, then looking in his mirror twice and slowing down sharply. You can see his head throwing forwards and the lap telemetry backs the braking up (no other braking behind the safety car).
Not to mention dropping more than 10 car lengths behind the safety car, something Perez was penalised for previously.

It’s interesting because we don’t see the same things in this video interesting how supporting different drivers and teams makes the rules slightly different ….

Anyway:
Article 55.5 rulebook states that “No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the Safety Car is deployed.


I don’t see any of this in the video?

As for the 10 car lengths… there is a yellow flag flashing at some point which is why GR leaves more space (than he should) between him and the safety car.

On the other hand Max is not allowed to pass GR under the safety car…

[napoleon1981]

https://www.veed.io/view/c4af4c6a-7cb1- ... anel=share

Not sure if that will share, but its Russell's time behind the Safety car.

Thanks for the video! I really don’t see how GR could get penalised here !??

I mean you can see George filling the safety car, then looking in his mirror twice and slowing down sharply. You can see his head throwing forwards and the lap telemetry backs the braking up (no other braking behind the safety car).
Not to mention dropping more than 10 car lengths behind the safety car, something Perez was penalised for previously.

This, GR is the master of screwing people, this was another attempt. He clearly tried to set a trap again, and was outside of the 10 car window. It doesnt justify verstappen passing, but George Russell should be penalized first. Not sure how that guy can chair the drivers federation, with this lack of integrity ( or whatever its called).

[Watto]

Thanks for the video! I really don’t see how GR could get penalised here !??

I mean you can see George filling the safety car, then looking in his mirror twice and slowing down sharply. You can see his head throwing forwards and the lap telemetry backs the braking up (no other braking behind the safety car).
Not to mention dropping more than 10 car lengths behind the safety car, something Perez was penalised for previously.

It’s interesting because we don’t see the same things in this video interesting how supporting different drivers and teams makes the rules slightly different ….

Anyway:
Article 55.5 rulebook states that “No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the Safety Car is deployed.


I don’t see any of this in the video?

As for the 10 car lengths… there is a yellow flag flashing at some point which is why GR leaves more space (than he should) between him and the safety car.

On the other hand Max is not allowed to pass GR under the safety car…

I lean slightly more towards it being a penalty for George.

I think the yellow flashing light is irrelevant under the SC as it is controlling the race. There isn't lift to go through a yellow flag section as best I am aware under SC, that would be chaos , during a race yes absolutely.

When you have Max's on board the gap between he and the safety car remains pretty stable.

The out I see for George comes from Max saying the SC was very slow and that was a little confusing to he and George.
So probably not super clear cut either way, but I am surprised the Stewarts didn't properly investigate the incident on their own summon drivers after the race to check Georges brake checking/slowing suddenly and Max's over taking just to get to the bottom of it all but their were 2 clear issues there. Not saying their was a penalty

[ENGINE TUNER]

Here we go

This may backfire as max overtook him regardless

Only because George slammed the brakes on behind the safety car

George has every right to warm his brakes and tires behind the safety car anticipating a possible restart and going into the pits where tire temp will drop precipitously. Why do you guys think the leader isn't allowed to warm brakes and tires?

[Seanspeed]

OK not much point debating any further - you described why you thought it was unfair but not why it is more unfair than what currently occurs. Right now, someone like Leclerc in Imola has pitted early, gone aggressive, seemingly performed an undercut well and an SC messes that all up - that's also unfair. The difference is, it's unfair in a way that benefits the cars who stay out and maintain track position, as opposed to those who are aggressive and make an early stop. I'm saying that - given there will be some degree of unfairness either way, since it's pure luck when an SC comes out - why not move the person it favours to the folks who have gone aggressive and therefore incentivise early/more stops rather than later/fewer stops. This is different than we had in the past when it was tried because refuelling fundamentally changes the equation - i.e. you cannot decide to stay out if you're running out of fuel.

But it's just an idea at the end of the day and probably no chance of it happening, so not a big deal. I just don't understand why one is more fair than the other since it just moves who benefits most from luck.

It's more unfair because the penalty for getting caught out is basically an automatic race over.

If you're nearing your pit window, but then a safety car comes out and you cant pit and the entire field bunches up and then you STILL have to pit right after it goes green, you're basically automatically gonna be put into like last place, and likely with a strong gap to even get to 2nd-to-last. You could literally be in 1st place and get sent to last place because of something like this. The sheer extremities of the potential consequences are ridiculous.

Obviously it wouldn't always work like this cuz others might be in your same situation, but we still shouldn't allow for it to ever happen. This is clearly much less fair than simply gaining/losing like roughly 8 seconds or so.

Well, yes, but think about what that would actually probably mean: teams are then incentivised to pit earlier to avoid getting caught out and so therefore they push harder to make sure they use up the available speed in the tyre. Therefore not only does your extreme example probably not actual occur all that often but I’m trying to avoid it we’ve created a different, harder form of racing.

It’s like saying that now we could get a situation where someone just pitted for an undercut on lap 5 which put them right to the back and so if a safety car comes out then they would be screwed. But because of that possibility, no one goes for such extreme undercuts so the most “unfair” situation doesn’t occur. The teams will always optimise strategy vs the rules and so we need to create rules that mean that optimisation drives the most positive effect.

Teams cant just 'pit earlier' based on some magical thinking of a potential full safety car coming out, especially when we have a common VSC alternative. This doesn't work unless a team has a wizard on their team who can literally see the future and make calls around it.

The whole point is that you CANT foresee these things, and so you need to design a system that is a fair as possible considering the problems this creates. What you're suggesting is making things WAY more unfair.

And frankly, what you're suggesting is even more ridiculous, cuz you're actually saying that teams should basically always just all universally take the most cautious strategy. This would make things so much more boring and ridiculous.

[SB15]

Redbull withdrew from their protest about the safety car being 10 car lengths. I think there was the risk of Verstappen being potentially handed a penalty if they continued.

[Watto]

Redbull withdrew from their protest about the safety car being 10 car lengths. I think there was the risk of Verstappen being potentially handed a penalty if they continued.

Yeah that would make sense and maybe why the stewards did nothing Max overtook, George's braking was overly aggressive, Max dropped back behind we will let it be.

[zibby43]

Red Bull protest rejected.

Just reported by Chris Medland.

Insufferable team.

[zibby43]

This is just pure embarrassment for the sport when teams behave like this and race outcomes aren’t final until 5-6 hours after the race. It has to end.

[kurtj]

If stewards decided that George did no wrong, then it should be a clear penalty for Max for overtaking under SC. Why did Mercedes not launch a protest?

[CHT]

If stewards decided that George did no wrong, then it should be a clear penalty for Max for overtaking under SC. Why did Mercedes not launch a protest?

Because Mercedez sees Max as their future WDC. Merc cant afford to sour their relationship

[SB15]

If stewards decided that George did no wrong, then it should be a clear penalty for Max for overtaking under SC. Why did Mercedes not launch a protest?

Because Mercedez sees Max as their future WDC. Merc cant afford to sour their relationship

No they don't. Toto has already confirmed he's sticking with the current lineup.

[Watto]

If stewards decided that George did no wrong, then it should be a clear penalty for Max for overtaking under SC. Why did Mercedes not launch a protest?

I have't seen the full findings yet. Just that it was dismissed - and reports before that RBR withdrew the appeal.


Reading Mercedes arguments though perhaps its an opens a can or worms; if Max was right behind him and braked like that its a penalty Max ran into him, they mentioned George looking in the mirror to see where Max was so they wouldn't crash and Georges gesturing to the SC to speed up, which Max conformed too was an issue post race defending George I wonder if all together it cancelled everything out Max addressed immediately, George did suddenly brake but argued it was to keep temp in the brakes, Max didn't gain on the SC - i.e he didn't accelerate to play games with . Both probably had mitigating circumstances so they let it pass, which I think is fine.There was talk about this last week with Max and Charles Max;s wobble coming out of the last corner, Charles coming up beside and was ahead before the S/F line iirc, Oscar was the defector safety car, the though was eiher Max's wobble was somewhat considered erratic so was okay for Charles to come up beside him to avoid an accident - and depends when they are considered racing again when Oscar passed the line or each driver.

[Watto]

If stewards decided that George did no wrong, then it should be a clear penalty for Max for overtaking under SC. Why did Mercedes not launch a protest?

Because Mercedez sees Max as their future WDC. Merc cant afford to sour their relationship

No they don't. Toto has already confirmed he's sticking with the current lineup.

Things can change there quickly though, yes I would say almost certainly George and Kimi will be their 2 drivers next year too but stranger things have happened; Thought Toto last week with the Max/George incident was interesting almost refused to really criticise Max, the reporters pushed him he took the smallest of bites even during the week he somewhat defended Max, saying somthing like Champions been to feel like they are fighting adversity, it does feel like Toto is just keeping that door open just incase.