2025 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona-Catalunya May 30 - June 1

[Farnborough]

But the question remains, would Red Bull be better off constructors wise if they developed a car that other people can drive fast as well, maybe not outright top pace but still strong.

Their focus on Max and WDC could mean the team falls apart when he leaves. Put Tsunoda and Lawson in that car and where are they?

This is especially problematic for future development, they surely developed into some edge case of peak performance that can only Max extract.

They are just ordinary drivers, until they can prove otherwise which hasn't been the case so far.

Both blistering in their speed if we were to compare themselves to us as mere observers, but ordinary in this rarefied field thats "distilled" for us by the competition we watch.

Any driver needs to be damned good to consistently run at the front, we don't see that in many at this level of scrutiny.

[avantman]

it turns out then, more than 30% of the drivers, 7 out of 20 to be precise, that were present on F1 grid last year are 'ordinary', nothing more than that. Based on mere fact they looked so next to Max Verstappen being his teammates at certain stage of their careers.

[venkyhere]

My take is that 'refining' driving talent for 'extracting time from a car', starting from a baseline is like charging a capacitor - it's exponentially diminishing returns vis-a-vis the effort. Going from 70% to 90% is easy, going from 90% to 95% harder, 95% to 99% almost impossible, and going from 99% to 99.5% is reserved for the true GOAT level god-tier talent. Doesn't mean that even the 99.5% extractor is a 'perfect driver'. There is no such thing as a perfect driver or a perfect car - they all make mistakes - how frequently/sporadically, how subtle/major the mistakes are - that is the only differentiator.

What the McLaren engineering have done, is nothing short of stupendous. Remember Stella talking about 'maintaining the same rate of performance growth' even from 2024 to 2025 ? That's phenomenal. The MCL38 was already beating the RB20 right from summer break of 2024, and it continued to pile on the advantage till end of season. They continued the same 'rate of adding performance' even into 2025, while other teams have plateaued or made 'wrong updates' (which is what usually happens). The McLaren engineering story is truly exceptional. Look at the advantages they hold, relative to others :
aero efficiency
mechanical traction and turn-in thanks to superior suspension design
superior tyre life thanks to innovative cooling
PU reliability

It's not just one trump card that McLaren holds, it's many. That's why there is barely any car that can come close to it (Max is exception, the RB21 is clearly 'below' the MCL39).

[Farnborough]

it turns out then, more than 30% of the drivers, 7 out of 20 to be precise, that were present on F1 grid last year are 'ordinary', nothing more than that. Based on mere fact they looked so next to Max Verstappen being his teammates at certain stage of their careers.

Factually, in statistics, just raw maths .... says that yes they are ordinary on the scorecard of F1.

And do you think any of those will be WDC ? Be honest here we are talking about the potential to challenge for championships after all .... that's each driver's stated aim, personally.

Nuance though, I do think Albon has done particularly well in picking up his skills/judgement/focus from level he was at in RB. Credit due.

Sainz APPEARS to be now trading his career backwards along the grid.

Gasly have also developed a much better appreciation of his own skills, how to maximise them, the intensity of focus needed to hold value in terms of how a driver is evaluated and in demand by a team.

[Wynters]

In a standard distribution, half the grid is below average, and half above average. Add in when they are measured which, in RBR's case, is almost always very early in their careers and, sometimes, when they haven't even had a pre-season to prepare. Add it seems RBR might be quite a difficult environment to find your feet at. Remember that Verstappen lost to Ricciardo over their period together.

RBR do design very fast cars though. We had a couple of years when RBR was so fast that, with an equally compliant No.2, Perez would've been champion.

[f1isgood]

In a standard distribution, half the grid is below average, and half above average. Add in when they are measured which, in RBR's case, is often very early in their careers and, sometimes, when they haven't even had a pre-season to prepare. Add it seems RBR might be quite a difficult environment to find your feet at. Remember that Verstappen lost to Ricciardo over their period together.

We had a couple of years when RBR was so fast that, with an equally compliant No.2, Perez would've been champion.

F1 driver pool is no longer a standard distribution. It is top 0.01 percent of the tail. You can't apply gaussianity anymore lol.

[Wynters]

Within the relative dataset, these drivers, how many do you consider are above the average performance of their peers?

[avantman]

In a standard distribution, half the grid is below average, and half above average. Add in when they are measured which, in RBR's case, is often very early in their careers and, sometimes, when they haven't even had a pre-season to prepare. Add it seems RBR might be quite a difficult environment to find your feet at. Remember that Verstappen lost to Ricciardo over their period together.

We had a couple of years when RBR was so fast that, with an equally compliant No.2, Perez would've been champion.

F1 driver pool is no longer a standard distribution. It is top 0.01 percent of the tail. You can't apply gaussianity anymore lol.

a person who says this: "Remember that Verstappen lost to Ricciardo over their period together." can do anything.

[DJ Downforce]

Yuki Tsunoda was barely faster than Lawson during their time together at Racing Bulls. They'd be a few hundreds from each other usually or one of them would be far behind. This shows their performance in the red bull would be similarly bad and they're both not amazing.

Now look at Hadjar, he is ending Lawson's career and is a consistent BEAST. He is an actual talent, not those two.

[Cs98]

Now look at Hadjar, he is ending Lawson's career and is a consistent BEAST. He is an actual talent, not those two.

Déjà vu.

[Mansell89]

Look at the state of Ferrari again here- Le Clerc looking a beast yet they’ll hold him up with his own below par team mate.

Absolutely embarrassing

[DGP123]

Leclerc won’t get anywhere near the top 3 even if the swap happens

Leclerc paying for a poor saturday

[woocasz]

Charles quickest atm.

[DGP123]

Charles quickest atm.

He’s not

[woocasz]

Charles quickest atm.

He’s not

yeah, was, for 2 laps
Mclaren in free air is in the different formula