2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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zeph
zeph
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Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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Well, Hamilton was told several times to lay off and nurse the brakes. He certainly had the pace to overtake Rosberg, but was told not to. Only at the very end was he given the green light.

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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henra wrote:Ok, then he maybe lost 1s. Still he was more than 2s in front after the second stop. He would have ended up behind Rosberg anyway. That was my point. And with the lap time difference of 0,1 - 0,2s at best he wouldn't have been able to overtake in normal conditions.
You seem to kinda suck at subtraction. Lewis's first pit stop was 1 second slower than Nico's alone. His second was 2 seconds slower. That's a 3 second difference in pit stops, not a 1 second one.
Conclusio: He threw it away in Q3.
No one is contesting that Lewis threw away a lot in Q3, but that doesn't change the fact that he probably would have won were it not for his pit stops being very slow.

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
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Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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henra wrote:
beelsebob wrote: It's not a 0.5s faster stop that would have changed it - it's a 2 second faster stop that would have saved it. Lewis' second stop was 4 seconds.
Ok, then he maybe lost 1s ( a normal good stop is 3s ish). Still he was more than 2s in front after the second stop. He would have ended up behind Rosberg anyway. That was my point. And with the lap time difference of 0,1 - 0,2s at best he wouldn't have been able to overtake in normal conditions.
Conclusio: He threw it away in Q3.
In BOTH stops, Mercedes placed Lewis behind a Williams car by losing him 1s each time.

Antony Davidson just used the sky pad to prove it.

Lewis spent a lot of time attacking Williams cars instead of Nico and that was directly related to the fact that his stops were a second slower every time.
Last edited by GrizzleBoy on 22 Jun 2014, 16:03, edited 2 times in total.

henra
henra
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Joined: 11 Mar 2012, 19:34

Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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zeph wrote:Well, Hamilton was told several times to lay off and nurse the brakes. He certainly had the pace to overtake Rosberg, but was told not to. Only at the very end was he given the green light.
And what makes you believe Rosberg was on max pace?
Could it be he managed brakes and electronic temps as well?

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
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Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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henra wrote:
zeph wrote:Well, Hamilton was told several times to lay off and nurse the brakes. He certainly had the pace to overtake Rosberg, but was told not to. Only at the very end was he given the green light.
And what makes you believe Rosberg was on max pace?
Could it be he managed brakes and electronic temps as well?
The fact that Lewis got into DRS range at the end. Had he had anything left, he would not have let Lewis do that.

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Bomber_Pilot
20
Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 14:19

Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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henra wrote:
beelsebob wrote: It's not a 0.5s faster stop that would have changed it - it's a 2 second faster stop that would have saved it. Lewis' second stop was 4 seconds.
Ok, then he maybe lost 1s. Still he was more than 2s in front after the second stop. He would have ended up behind Rosberg anyway. That was my point. And with the lap time difference of 0,1 - 0,2s at best he wouldn't have been able to overtake in normal conditions.
Conclusio: He threw it away in Q3.
The only scenario where that time lost in the pits would matter, would be if Hamilton would/could get out infront of Nico after the pitstop. And that just wasn't the case. He was always too far behind and he was too slow to overtake.

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
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Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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Bomber_Pilot wrote:
henra wrote:
beelsebob wrote: It's not a 0.5s faster stop that would have changed it - it's a 2 second faster stop that would have saved it. Lewis' second stop was 4 seconds.
Ok, then he maybe lost 1s. Still he was more than 2s in front after the second stop. He would have ended up behind Rosberg anyway. That was my point. And with the lap time difference of 0,1 - 0,2s at best he wouldn't have been able to overtake in normal conditions.
Conclusio: He threw it away in Q3.
The only scenario where that time lost in the pits would matter, would be if Hamilton would/could get out infront of Nico after the pitstop. And that just wasn't the case. He was always too far behind and he was too slow to overtake.
Wasn't it? Even if you ignore the first stop, Lewis would have been along side Nico with a decent second stop.

If you include the first stop, Lewis could have been a full second ahead after the second stop.

LionKing
LionKing
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Joined: 26 Jun 2010, 22:03

Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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beelsebob wrote:
henra wrote:
zeph wrote:Well, Hamilton was told several times to lay off and nurse the brakes. He certainly had the pace to overtake Rosberg, but was told not to. Only at the very end was he given the green light.
And what makes you believe Rosberg was on max pace?
Could it be he managed brakes and electronic temps as well?
The fact that Lewis got into DRS range at the end. Had he had anything left, he would not have let Lewis do that.
After about 30 laps in the final stint and when they caught a backmarker....

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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LionKing wrote:After about 30 laps in the final stint and when they caught a backmarker....
Right... No one is claiming Lewis had a huge advantage (just a small one). But that doesn't change that Nico clearly had no more left. If he had had more left, the margin would not have reduced, simple as that.

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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Hamilton was never going to pass rosberg on track or during the pits today. Rosberg had the pace when it mattered. Deal with it.

LionKing
LionKing
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Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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beelsebob wrote: If you include the first stop, Lewis could have been a full second ahead after the second stop.
Why do we ignore the time Lewis gained due to being given the undercut instead of Rosberg?

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SilverArrow10
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Joined: 10 Mar 2013, 20:46

Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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Pierce89 wrote:
SilverArrow10 wrote: Gladly, 0.9 on first stop, 1.0 in the second. Comes out 1.9 behind. Do the maths, with momentum on warmed up tires. great race though, get France back now we have Austria.
If you're a Merc fan as your name implies, why do you always hate it when Nico wins?
Woah where's the always and hate in what I say. I don't hate the fact he won im stating an opinion, and now I've cooled down Nico drove a great race, Hamilton would have got this one in the bag if he had messed it up on Saturday. and since when does who you support have to do with a valid point?, I just like the fact they call the cars silver arrows :lol:
"Leave it to Lewis Hamilton to ruin Redbull's day" - Martin Brundle

"Ok Lewis, Its Hammertime!!" - Peter Bonnington

"Fresh tires, 15 laps. What do you think Lewis Hamilton is going to do?" - Martin Brundle

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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LionKing wrote:
beelsebob wrote: If you include the first stop, Lewis could have been a full second ahead after the second stop.
Why do we ignore the time Lewis gained due to being given the undercut instead of Rosberg?
That's true. But that wouldn't have changed if the length of the pit stops had changed.

henra
henra
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Joined: 11 Mar 2012, 19:34

Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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beelsebob wrote: You seem to kinda suck at subtraction. Lewis's first pit stop was 1 second slower than Nico's alone. His second was 2 seconds slower. That's a 3 second difference in pit stops, not a 1 second one.
If his second pit stop was 4s then it was 1s slower.

It was noticeable at the end that Rosberg kept the gap around 1,3s. He managed the pace. Any gain from the first pit stop wouldn't have carried over necessarily.
You're guessing too much based on would have/could haves.
We don't have the full Picture, so we should be carefull about second guessing too much.
Otherwise yo might come across as desprate Hamboy.

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
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Re: 2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

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henra wrote:
beelsebob wrote: You seem to kinda suck at subtraction. Lewis's first pit stop was 1 second slower than Nico's alone. His second was 2 seconds slower. That's a 3 second difference in pit stops, not a 1 second one.
If his second pit stop was 4s then it was 1s slower.
No, Rosberg had sub 3 second stops. Once again, you're failing at subtraction.
It was noticeable at the end that Rosberg kept the gap around 1,3s. He managed the pace. Any gain from the first pit stop wouldn't have carried over necessarily.
We heard during the race that Nico had used much more from his tyres than Lewis, despite Lewis following other cars. It's clear (at least to me) that Nico did not have more pace.