Flexiwings 2025

[pantherxxx]

Well RB has been doing this from the start of 2025 pretty much, Mclaren for like two years now. I would expect for RB it's a free performance thing, for Mclaren their car's balance might well be completely dependant on this, not to mention the infamous rear wings.

How do we know McLaren is completely dependant on this for their car's balance?

I can say with 100% certainty that I don't know.

We don't know, but that's the rumor spreading in the paddock.

Under James Key, McLaren’s designs lacked Red Bull’s aerodynamic cohesion. The MCL60’s mid-2023 upgrades (Austria, Singapore) improved pace but didn’t match Red Bull’s RB19 stability. Marshall’s 2024 arrival, with flexi-wing expertise, addressed these issues, and they dramatically improved stability and tire management.

Rob Marshall, who joined McLaren from Red Bull in January 2024, brought expertise critical to McLaren’s 2024 turnaround and 2025 dominance. His flexi-wing reputation is well-documented. McLaren lacked a cohesive aerodynamic philosophy pre-Marshall. The Race notes McLaren’s 2024 Miami upgrade, including a flexi-front wing, transformed balance, enabling Norris’s first win and the Constructors’ title.

Horner said, “Don’t underestimate the regulation change of race nine, you know, with these front wings. That could be a game-changer.” This hints at McLaren’s flexi-wing dependence.

[bluechris]

Guys i am pretty certain from several videos from last year and the 1st races this season that RB wing didnt flex so much... maybe the camera position plays tricks to us?

[Quantum]

We don't know, but that's the rumor spreading in the paddock.

Under James Key, McLaren’s designs lacked Red Bull’s aerodynamic cohesion. The MCL60’s mid-2023 upgrades (Austria, Singapore) improved pace but didn’t match Red Bull’s RB19 stability. Marshall’s 2024 arrival, with flexi-wing expertise, addressed these issues, and they dramatically improved stability and tire management.

Rob Marshall, who joined McLaren from Red Bull in January 2024, brought expertise critical to McLaren’s 2024 turnaround and 2025 dominance. His flexi-wing reputation is well-documented. McLaren lacked a cohesive aerodynamic philosophy pre-Marshall. The Race notes McLaren’s 2024 Miami upgrade, including a flexi-front wing, transformed balance, enabling Norris’s first win and the Constructors’ title.

Horner said, “Don’t underestimate the regulation change of race nine, you know, with these front wings. That could be a game-changer.” This hints at McLaren’s flexi-wing dependence.

It hints at Horner's bias. As Bobbi was quoted hearing Red Bull staff suggesting McLaren will be "nowhere".

It is also very possible that Horner is overestimating the impact of this by playing it up so dramatically.
The water in the tyres thing springs to mind

[AR3-GP]

We don't know, but that's the rumor spreading in the paddock.

Under James Key, McLaren’s designs lacked Red Bull’s aerodynamic cohesion. The MCL60’s mid-2023 upgrades (Austria, Singapore) improved pace but didn’t match Red Bull’s RB19 stability. Marshall’s 2024 arrival, with flexi-wing expertise, addressed these issues, and they dramatically improved stability and tire management.

Rob Marshall, who joined McLaren from Red Bull in January 2024, brought expertise critical to McLaren’s 2024 turnaround and 2025 dominance. His flexi-wing reputation is well-documented. McLaren lacked a cohesive aerodynamic philosophy pre-Marshall. The Race notes McLaren’s 2024 Miami upgrade, including a flexi-front wing, transformed balance, enabling Norris’s first win and the Constructors’ title.

Horner said, “Don’t underestimate the regulation change of race nine, you know, with these front wings. That could be a game-changer.” This hints at McLaren’s flexi-wing dependence.

It hints at Horner's bias. As Bobbi was quoted hearing Red Bull staff suggesting McLaren will be "nowhere".

It is also very possible that Horner is overestimating the impact of this by playing it up so dramatically.
The water in the tyres thing springs to mind

What about Fred from Ferrari?

"For sure everybody will have a new front wing in Barcelona, by definition and by regulation. I think it will be perhaps a reset of the performance of everybody."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/vasseur- ... -heres-why

[Silent Storm]

If you want to understand the impact of a flexible front wing, just look at Aston Martin’s 2023 season. While this one may not be as dramatic, it could still be significantly influential.

[AR3-GP]

The TD might have some impact, but it won't be enough to catch Mclaren. They might lose a tenth in outright pace, but it's really their tire temperature control that gives them the big advantage. The ability to have tires in good shape for all 3 sectors across a qualy lap and to maintain their pace over a stint comes from this and it's worth more than losing 1 tenth of outright pace.

That means that even with a car that has less balance and more tire slip, they can still minimize the temperature increase in the tires. Mclaren's advantage will carry into 2026 unless other teams reproduce it or the FIA bans it on subjective grounds.

[Quantum]

What about Fred from Ferrari?

"For sure everybody will have a new front wing in Barcelona, by definition and by regulation. I think it will be perhaps a reset of the performance of everybody."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/vasseur- ... -heres-why

What about Fred from Ferrari? I mean.....

1.McLaren will be nowhere.

2.I think perhaps a reset of the performance for everybody


There's 2 very different takes.

[chrisc90]

Have any of the other teams had much to chime in on how it’ll affect performance?

[AR3-GP]

What about Fred from Ferrari?

"For sure everybody will have a new front wing in Barcelona, by definition and by regulation. I think it will be perhaps a reset of the performance of everybody."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/vasseur- ... -heres-why

What about Fred from Ferrari? I mean.....

1.McLaren will be nowhere.

2.I think perhaps a reset of the performance for everybody


There's 2 very different takes.

There's 2 different context though.

1) Was a rumored statement from an italian source which was likely dramatized, falsified, or off the cuff in nature.
2) A public statement from a public facing individual

We don't even know if 1) is true. Horner's own public facing comments are similar in "severity" to what Fred has said. It seems irresponsible to use unofficial, alleged, and potentially off the cuff, remarks as Red Bull's position.

This is what is actually be compared:

Horner said, “Don’t underestimate the regulation change of race nine, you know, with these front wings. That could be a game-changer.”

"For sure everybody will have a new front wing in Barcelona, by definition and by regulation. I think it will be perhaps a reset of the performance of everybody."

They are very similar in their "official" position. What people believe behind closed doors is entirely speculative.


Anyway, as I have said a few post above, I don't feel this is the more important thing for Mclaren. It's their tire cooling. Even with an imbalanced car, they will have cooler tires and thus more performance in the races. The reason that everyone else has no pace in the races is because the tires run hotter.

[Quantum]

There's 2 different context though.

Including water in the tyres?

[AR3-GP]

There's 2 different context though.

Including water in the tyres?

Water in the tires has been ruled out successfully because of Red Bull's inquisition. The other teams are benefitting handsomely from letting one team do the dirty work. Did the other teams have thermal cameras looking at Mclaren's brake tins? Another discovery courtesy of the Austrian inquisition.

[bluechris]

The TD might have some impact, but it won't be enough to catch Mclaren. They might lose a tenth in outright pace, but it's really their tire temperature control that gives them the big advantage. The ability to have tires in good shape for all 3 sectors across a qualy lap and to maintain their pace over a stint comes from this and it's worth more than losing 1 tenth of outright pace.

That means that even with a car that has less balance and more tire slip, they can still minimize the temperature increase in the tires. Mclaren's advantage will carry into 2026 unless other teams reproduce it or the FIA bans it on subjective grounds.

To me it's very important. Let's keep in mind that for example McLaren already is down on top speed in comparison to the others but if the wings become more stiff, then this will reduce extra top speed. If they reduce the angle of attack to regain speed, then they will loose downforce. If they loose downforce, the tyres will behave differently and this will trouble them. Suddenly the team will need to find the best compromise again. The bigger the flexing, the bigger the problem is.
This is not only for McLaren but all the teams will be affected by our, it's just in my mind and from what i have seen so far, McLaren and MB are the flexo kings even though a video emerged here showing huge RB flexing also.

Maybe i see the things oversimplified but we will see soon what really will happen.

[Watto]

There's 2 different context though.

Including water in the tyres?

Water in the tires has been ruled out successfully because of Red Bull's inquisition. The other teams are benefitting handsomely from letting one team do the dirty work. Did the other teams have thermal cameras looking at Mclaren's brake tins? Another discovery courtesy of the Austrian inquisition.

I'm guessing RBR are shifting through all of marshals work do see what he was and this is a lot of where we are seeing RBR lines of enquiry

[AR3-GP]

The TD might have some impact, but it won't be enough to catch Mclaren. They might lose a tenth in outright pace, but it's really their tire temperature control that gives them the big advantage. The ability to have tires in good shape for all 3 sectors across a qualy lap and to maintain their pace over a stint comes from this and it's worth more than losing 1 tenth of outright pace.

That means that even with a car that has less balance and more tire slip, they can still minimize the temperature increase in the tires. Mclaren's advantage will carry into 2026 unless other teams reproduce it or the FIA bans it on subjective grounds.

To me it's very important. Let's keep in mind that for example McLaren already is down on top speed in comparison to the others but if the wings become more stiff, then this will reduce extra top speed. If they reduce the angle of attack to regain speed, then they will loose downforce. If they loose downforce, the tyres will behave differently and this will trouble them. Suddenly the team will need to find the best compromise again. The bigger the flexing, the bigger the problem is.
This is not only for McLaren but all the teams will be affected by our, it's just in my mind and from what i have seen so far, McLaren and MB are the flexo kings even though a video emerged here showing huge RB flexing also.

Maybe i see the things oversimplified but we will see soon what really will happen.

Yes they might lose some top speed, but when you have a 1 second margin because you can keep the tires cool, I feel that the TD will not be enough.

All of Verstappen (RB), Russell (Merc), and Hamilton (Fer) made radio communications at different points in the weekend pointing to it. Hamilton complained about the front not turning in the sprint. His engineer told him that the fronts were overheated. Verstappen reported that it was "so slippery" around lap 10 of the GP. That was the message that his tires were overheated. Russell complained all weekend about no grip and not feeling comfortable. His tires were overheated. He said Mercedes struggled the most of to the top 4 teams. Tire temperature is biggest performance factor right now. The TD will do nothing to stop the Mclaren in my opinion.

[bluechris]

The TD might have some impact, but it won't be enough to catch Mclaren. They might lose a tenth in outright pace, but it's really their tire temperature control that gives them the big advantage. The ability to have tires in good shape for all 3 sectors across a qualy lap and to maintain their pace over a stint comes from this and it's worth more than losing 1 tenth of outright pace.

That means that even with a car that has less balance and more tire slip, they can still minimize the temperature increase in the tires. Mclaren's advantage will carry into 2026 unless other teams reproduce it or the FIA bans it on subjective grounds.

To me it's very important. Let's keep in mind that for example McLaren already is down on top speed in comparison to the others but if the wings become more stiff, then this will reduce extra top speed. If they reduce the angle of attack to regain speed, then they will loose downforce. If they loose downforce, the tyres will behave differently and this will trouble them. Suddenly the team will need to find the best compromise again. The bigger the flexing, the bigger the problem is.
This is not only for McLaren but all the teams will be affected by our, it's just in my mind and from what i have seen so far, McLaren and MB are the flexo kings even though a video emerged here showing huge RB flexing also.

Maybe i see the things oversimplified but we will see soon what really will happen.

Yes they might lose some top speed, but when you have a 1 second margin because you can keep the tires cool, I feel that the TD will not be enough.

All of Verstappen (RB), Russell (Merc), and Hamilton (Fer) made radio communications at different points in the weekend pointing to it. Hamilton complained about the front not turning in the sprint. His engineer told him that the fronts were overheated. Verstappen reported that it was "so slippery" around lap 10 of the GP. That was the message that his tires were overheated. Russell complained all weekend about no grip and not feeling comfortable. His tires were overheated. He said Mercedes struggled the most of to the top 4 teams. Tire temperature is biggest performance factor right now. The TD will do nothing to stop the Mclaren in my opinion.

Oh yeah i agree totally in what you say but we really don't know how really it will affect every team. McLaren i think are far ahead even though the bigger the flexi effect, the bigger disruption you get imo.