2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

[Waywardism]

It's not a 0.5s faster stop that would have changed it - it's a 2 second faster stop that would have saved it. Lewis' second stop was 4 seconds.

Ok, then he maybe lost 1s ( a normal good stop is 3s ish). Still he was more than 2s in front after the second stop. He would have ended up behind Rosberg anyway. That was my point. And with the lap time difference of 0,1 - 0,2s at best he wouldn't have been able to overtake in normal conditions.
Conclusio: He threw it away in Q3.

He did throw it away in Q3.

BUT if he had had equal pit stops today then he would have been ahead of Bottas after the first stops, there's no telling what that could have done to the race.

[LionKing]

It was noticeable at the end that Rosberg kept the gap around 1,3s. He managed the pace. Any gain from the first pit stop wouldn't have carried over necessarily.
You're guessing too much based on would have/could haves.
We don't have the full Picture, so we should be carefull about second guessing too much.
Otherwise yo might come across as desprate Hamboy.

Exactly from live timing I remember seeing Rosberg even increasing the gap above 2 sec at times too.

[LionKing]

We heard during the race that Nico had used much more from his tyres than Lewis, despite Lewis following other cars. It's clear (at least to me) that Nico did not have more pace.

and Lewis had more pace in hand but still had to ask his race engineer where he can find more time?

[beelsebob]

We heard during the race that Nico had used much more from his tyres than Lewis, despite Lewis following other cars. It's clear (at least to me) that Nico did not have more pace.

and Lewis had more pace in hand but still had to ask his race engineer where he can find more time?

What professional driver doesn't ask his engineer if he can spot any more time that can be gained?

[zeph]

I feel for Massa. To be leading the race, and drop to P4 after your first stop, that is...well...it sucks...

[LionKing]

What professional driver doesn't ask his engineer if he can spot any more time that can be gained?

Obviously... the one who had no more pace in hand

[beelsebob]

What professional driver doesn't ask his engineer if he can spot any more time that can be gained?

Obviously... the one who had no more pace in hand

No, that's far from obvious - you can bet your bottom dollar that every other driver on the track asked their engineer where they could gain time.

[LionKing]

What professional driver doesn't ask his engineer if he can spot any more time that can be gained?

Obviously... the one who had no more pace in hand

No, that's far from obvious - you can bet your bottom dollar that every other driver on the track asked their engineer where they could gain time.

If a driver has time in hand and in a race for the win, he will not use it first but he will ask his engineer for the time. Right... brilliant logic.

[henra]

No, Rosberg had sub 3 second stops. Once again, you're failing at subtraction.

I haven't seen 2,0s stops so far. Rosbergs stop was a normal one in the 2,8 - 3,0s range. If you have the Timing to prove that it was <2,1s I might rethink my reasoning.

On a serious note:
I tried to get back on a fact based discussion and refrain from personal insults but it seems you're so emotionally affected by Hamilton not winning this that this seems not possible.
Therefore I'm out of this discussion.

[beelsebob]

If a driver has time in hand and in a race for the win, he will not use it first but he will ask his engineer for the time. Right... brilliant logic.

Who's saying that? The assertion here is that time lost in the pit stops made the difference for the race win, not that either driver had a large amount of time in hand (Lewis demonstrated that he had only about 0.03s a lap over 30 laps, so not enough to pass on track).

[GrizzleBoy]

It's not a 0.5s faster stop that would have changed it - it's a 2 second faster stop that would have saved it. Lewis' second stop was 4 seconds.

Ok, then he maybe lost 1s ( a normal good stop is 3s ish). Still he was more than 2s in front after the second stop. He would have ended up behind Rosberg anyway. That was my point. And with the lap time difference of 0,1 - 0,2s at best he wouldn't have been able to overtake in normal conditions.
Conclusio: He threw it away in Q3.

He did throw it away in Q3.

BUT if he had had equal pit stops today then he would have been ahead of Bottas after the first stops, there's no telling what that could have done to the race.

True.

The stop put him behind a williams instead of NICO (proven by Antony Davidson on the sky pad), then they immediately after told him to lift and coast when he needed to make the overtake.

Also, why do we keep asserting that Lewis' pace wasn't being governed by the pit wall? He was told over and over throughout the race to slow down, lift and coast, cool the barkers, brakes are close to limit, etc,etc. He was told only a few laps from the end he could actually push and he did actually make some gains near the end.

I'm not sure we actually got to see either Mercs pace tbh.

[thevlack]

I have a question, its possible to delay a pit stop *only 1 Sec*? Or Would you end by trashing all the thing?... I think that is the question.

[beelsebob]

In all fairness. Had the first stop not put him behind a Williams, he almost certainly would not have been given the undercut at the second stop. Lewis was given the undercut to pass the Williams, not to pass Nico.

[beelsebob]

I have a question, its possible to delay a pit stop *only 1 Sec*? Or Would you end by trashing all the thing?... I think that is the question.

I don't follow, what are you asking? Are you trying to imply that Merc are giving Lewis slower stops deliberately?

I would be very surprised if that were the case.

[komninosm]

It's not a 0.5s faster stop that would have changed it - it's a 2 second faster stop that would have saved it. Lewis' second stop was 4 seconds.

Ok, then he maybe lost 1s ( a normal good stop is 3s ish). Still he was more than 2s in front after the second stop. He would have ended up behind Rosberg anyway. That was my point. And with the lap time difference of 0,1 - 0,2s at best he wouldn't have been able to overtake in normal conditions.
Conclusio: He threw it away in Q3.

He did throw it away in Q3.

BUT if he had had equal pit stops today then he would have been ahead of Bottas after the first stops, there's no telling what that could have done to the race.

Exactly!
If Hamilton was ahead of Bottas after first pitstop he would be ahead of Rosberg by second, or at very least in DRS range for over half the race; and Rosberg made a few mistakes (exited track once) that would have cost him the win for sure.
All I see here is Hamilton haters not wanting to use proper unbiased logic.