Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

[PlatinumZealot]

I must be logged in to view.. can you copy and paste the data here? -
edit: never mind...

[Byronrhys]

You mean RedBull's one lap pace! lol... I think Vettel's strength is not pace, but actually composition - He is very composed on a one lap run. That calmness in qualifying is confidence that his machine is the best. IMO, If your car is slower you are not going to have that calm confidence - you would be ragging the car and over-driving.

well yes, i suppose you could have said the same about hamilton in 2007 when he had probably the fastest car he could have been seen as the qualifying man, but as hes in a car thats slower or equal to the fastest car (not fastest) now we see he is a brilliant overtaker,

...See what I did there, sneakily brought it back on topic

Yeah, but he had a 2XWDC to fight over pole against. That now turns into the question of confidence in ones self. You know wondering, "Am I really faster than this guy? Can I beat him today?" Vettel doesn't have to worry about that aspect because he already knows he has Webber in his pocket when it comes to qualifying. A shining example of this was Kimi Raikkonen in 2009: Massa was dominating the qualifying and Kimi was lost at sea in the races in the first half of the season. However as soon as Massa fell out.... Kimi was back to full confidence and performing very well. So yeah, I think Having a fast if not faster driver in the other seat can cause you to over drive especially if that driver is not well composed or has some mental issues. And yes, Webber could be fast, but because Vettel is faster, Webber is more likle the one who is going to have to muster all his confidence and composure to put together a competitive lap - seems he just can't do that consistently nowadays.

Cough* Raikkonen was actually leading qualifying cough*

[ell66]

Im convinced if vettel had either hamilton or alonso as team mates he's get beaten more often than not, both in qually and races.

[ajdavison2]

I agree, I think we can all agree that Alonso and Hamilton have the ability to far outdrive the car that they have, E.g. Hamilton '09 with the mp4-24, Alonso '10&'11 at the start of both seasons before the f10 and f150 got up to the pace just off the top of my head. While Vettel is undoubtedly a very fast driver, I don't think he necessarily has the same ability to outdrive the car he's in, and that he needs the car to be spot on in order for him to deliver the kind of performances we've seen this year. That's why I agree with you ell, if Ham and Alo can both outdrive their cars, imagine what they could do in arguably the fastest car on the grid.

[SiLo]

I have yet to see Vettel outdrive his car, or Webber either. We frequently see Hamilton and Alonso wringing the neck out of the car to get a time out of the thing, it's much more enjoyable than watching Vettel calmly drive to pole after pole, without looking like he is really pushing hard.

[flynfrog]

There is no way to out drive your car. The car can only provide x amount of grip you cant get more than that. Not that any one in this thread will care...

[beelsebob]

There is no way to out drive your car. The car can only provide x amount of grip you cant get more than that. Not that any one in this thread will care...

Oh come on... it's a turn of phrase. It means that you get more out of the car than any other F1 driver might get. It's normally applied to cars that aren't as fast as the competition, but where the driver makes up for the deficiency.

Yes, this is a technical forum and precise terms are great... but I'm pretty sure we all understand the meaning of this phrase.

[Just_a_fan]

There is no way to out drive your car. The car can only provide x amount of grip you cant get more than that. Not that any one in this thread will care...

It's more than just about total grip levels though. It's about getting the car to do things it doesn't want to do and thus be quicker than the car would if driven "comfortably". When a car has a problem but the driver still gets good lap times then he is "out-driving the car", for example.

[N12ck]

To be fair that is right, if you out drive something you have to take a car beyond its ability, if you took a car beyond its ability it would fail or go into a wall, so its not possible to out drive a car, it is possible to drive it to the cars absolute limit but never out drive it.

[Giblet]

There is no way to out drive your car. The car can only provide x amount of grip you cant get more than that. Not that any one in this thread will care...

Oh come on... it's a turn of phrase. It means that you get more out of the car than any other F1 driver might get. It's normally applied to cars that aren't as fast as the competition, but where the driver makes up for the deficiency.

Yes, this is a technical forum and precise terms are great... but I'm pretty sure we all understand the meaning of this phrase.

Exactly. Like Senna in a Toleman, or Alonso in a Minardi.

[timbo]

Alonso in a Minardi.

Didn't find him all that spectacular back then.

[Giblet]

I his debut, he out-qualified his teammate by 2.6 seconds. He also qualified ahead of both Benettons on one occasion.

His driving in the Minardi might not have been enough for you, but it was enough to impress everyone in Formula1 and put him on the radar.

[flynfrog]

There is no way to out drive your car. The car can only provide x amount of grip you cant get more than that. Not that any one in this thread will care...

Oh come on... it's a turn of phrase. It means that you get more out of the car than any other F1 driver might get. It's normally applied to cars that aren't as fast as the competition, but where the driver makes up for the deficiency.

Yes, this is a technical forum and precise terms are great... but I'm pretty sure we all understand the meaning of this phrase.

then maybe you could try proving it with data instead of this meaningless talk of over driving the car. was he using 98% of the grip level? What about how close was he to a theoretical perfect lap. If hes getting more out of then any other driver you mean his teammate as none of the other drivers are in the same car.

What you are really talking about is the ability to balance the car so the load is spread across the tires evenly has nothing to do with "overdriving" the car.

[timbo]

I his debut, he out-qualified his teammate by 2.6 seconds. He also qualified ahead of both Benettons on one occasion.

Wasn't his team mate Alex Yoong?

His driving in the Minardi might not have been enough for you, but it was enough to impress everyone in Formula1 and put him on the radar.

I'm not saying I was unimpressed. I was not impressed. FWIW Webbo's debut was more impressive and Justin Wilson probably too.
But in the team of Minardi's caliber it comes down to luck more often than not.
My comment was not meant to bash Alonso.

[PlatinumZealot]

Cough* Raikkonen was actually leading qualifying cough*

Yes you are right.. but he was still getting his but kicked off a Fiery Massa! Good thing we didn't get to See Alonso dropping a hot 6 tenths all over him!

Point is, Kimi pretty much was under control.. Massa had the momentum from 2008.