10 Year Engine development freez

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Post

Both are advanced of course, especially tires in rally.

The engine freeze is also unclear on one thing: is it the freeze of current engines or the freeze of engines at the end of 2008?
Because in 2008, teams are allowed to modifiy more of the engines than this year.

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Post

rsfocus wrote:
Belatti wrote:
I know, I know, rally is not as exiting and as a technology pinnacle like F1 is, TILL NOW..........
have you had a good look at the world rally car regs? just cos they are in a sedan shell doesnt mean they are not advanced...
I know they are advanced, and a lot!!!
Just said that F1 used to be more... TILL NOW... :(

Still my question is not answered...
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

User avatar
flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Post

so F1 is the new global champ car spec bridstones spec engine sthrow in a spec wing package

User avatar
Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Post

I can hear you, Flyn. :D

What's wrong with Champ Cars? Champs are cool. F1 can be 5% faster, but they seem as fun to drive as a Panoz... :)

Besides, it's amazing how many times F1 fans ask for the things Champ Cars already have, from slicks to less aero and more driver control, from less powerful team managers to maybe teams that doesn't live with so much interference from automakers. And that's is a hidden blessing of the spec cars: NO more executives on the pit lane (or at least, a few less, which is good).

Finally, emphatically, I say the matter of equality is settled when you consider they have had Paul Tracy for many years, the Chuck Norris of Racing, if there have ever been one.

"Pinnacling" about F1 only make it more patent... Tracy is so cool and he is cool in such a way, that drivers in F1 stare in awe, like defeated Ninjas... Hamilton is a kid, Tracy is a man.

That's natural: on a spec series, there are less excuses left for the drivers. That makes you grow, if I'm allowed to say it so.

For a taste of Champ Car drivers, check our own JPM, the mightiest colombian under the sun. Remember his zest in the beginning, before being waterboiled in F1? Some of it came from CART: I bet he went to NASCAR for "that feeling" he lost whe he went to "all-english" teams like the phlegmatic Williams and the cool and technical McLaren... :)

The similarities in "development" toward a spec series are not surprising, as CART and FOCA share its "birth environment": rebellion from automakers and promotors towards its original AAA national association, old and quaint automobile clubs, overcomed by natural growing of the sport and the almighty and juicy TV rights.

You could say this is the kind of cars everybody would have if racing entrepreneurs ruled the world.

About the engine freeze, here is a Manchild fakery:

Image
Ciro

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Post

Ciro:

First few details: champ car have more aero than F1 today , if you talk about raw amount, they have an undertray producing about 2500Kg of downforce at 300Km/h.

Okay they weight more so finally F1 had better accelerations (overall, G forces on all axis) and also F1 cars produce more downforce at low speed but mostly the superiority of F1 cars is in the mechanical part, they're lighter and suspension, tire wise far better.

But that was not the point of my post, yes champ car is cool..(well driving wise, it is not as "quick" as F1, the champ cars are far more stable )but What's the point in having F1 like champ car??? I want F1 to be pinnacle of motorsport because i want F1 to be a driver AND engineering championship.
Alain prost said many times what i liked in F1 was that "technological environment", setting up the car and then using it for the race.

But By the way.. i don't think F1 is going to be another champ car series, just look at the aero regulations in 2009 they do more to enhance the downforce and lower the drag than before (more ground effects, larger wings, less appendices, adjustable aero) and talking about the engines, i too don't understand the freeze for 10 years BUT bear in mind that this is to let the free developpement of KERS etc..so i think F1 will still be pinnacle in engine for long time.

User avatar
flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Post

Ciro Pabón wrote:I can hear you, Flyn. :D

What's wrong with Champ Cars? Champs are cool. F1 can be 5% faster, but they seem as fun to drive as a Panoz... :)

Besides, it's amazing how many times F1 fans ask for the things Champ Cars already have, from slicks to less aero and more driver control, from less powerful team managers to maybe teams that doesn't live with so much interference from automakers. And that's is a hidden blessing of the spec cars: NO more executives on the pit lane (or at least, a few less, which is good).

Finally, emphatically, I say the matter of equality is settled when you consider they have had Paul Tracy for many years, the Chuck Norris of Racing, if there have ever been one.

"Pinnacling" about F1 only make it more patent... Tracy is so cool and he is cool in such a way, that drivers in F1 stare in awe, like defeated Ninjas... Hamilton is a kid, Tracy is a man.

That's natural: on a spec series, there are less excuses left for the drivers. That makes you grow, if I'm allowed to say it so.

For a taste of Champ Car drivers, check our own JPM, the mightiest colombian under the sun. Remember his zest in the beginning, before being waterboiled in F1? Some of it came from CART: I bet he went to NASCAR for "that feeling" he lost whe he went to "all-english" teams like the phlegmatic Williams and the cool and technical McLaren... :)

The similarities in "development" toward a spec series are not surprising, as CART and FOCA share its "birth environment": rebellion from automakers and promotors towards its original AAA national association, old and quaint automobile clubs, overcomed by natural growing of the sport and the almighty and juicy TV rights.

You could say this is the kind of cars everybody would have if racing entrepreneurs ruled the world.

About the engine freeze, here is a Manchild fakery:

Image

To be honest The reason I like f1 was because every series in the US went on to become a spec class

F1 all the cars were different not equal but at least development acured

User avatar
Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Post

Ogami, you're as right as a human been can be, but humbly I put forward LeMans as the engineering championship.

Flyn: you're taking me a little bit too seriously. It must be from watching too many F1 races... :lol:

If you continue to consider Champ Car an "under-series" to F1, you're forcing me, heaven is my witness: I'll give your address to Tracy. :wink:
Ciro

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Post

Yes Ciro, you're right about lemans too, but that's endurance, but you're right again.

Carlos
Carlos
11
Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

Post

Paul Tracy? Chuck Norris? I have seen Chuck Norris, superb technique and control... but never noticed any resemblence comparing mastery, dignity or style. I am doubtful the two can be compared. In the video, Paul Tracy is in the blue and white car and driving suit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdqIO0Bv_Zg

Cart Champion Micheal Andretti Comments On Paul Tracy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaFxm_UMMI8

Montoya Pass Clean But Tracy Closes The Door On His Team Mate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABTfD1Nb63I

EDIT - Flynfrog...you made me chuckle reminding me...green hair. PT is also...quite the character...I remember he once dressed up like a Lucha Libre wrestler with a blue mask and cape... and the time he jumped a sand dune in a golf cart...good times...thanks

EDIT - Great pix - jump a sand dune... defy gravity in a Cart chassis... all wheels off the ground ... thats the kind of shot I used to see everytime F1 raced at the old Ring.
Last edited by Carlos on 29 Oct 2007, 12:44, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Post

paul from the days he had green hair

edit forgot the picture

Image
Last edited by flynfrog on 28 Oct 2007, 17:31, edited 1 time in total.

Carlos
Carlos
11
Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

Post

I solumnly promise my next post will be On Topic :wink:

But not this one. If you would like to follow Cart this is a good column type blog with a sense of humour that covers a lot of territory in the series.

http://pressdog.typepad.com/

User avatar
flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Post

Carlos wrote:I solumnly promise my next post will be On Topic :wink:

But not this one. If you would like to follow Cart this is a good column type blog with a sense of humour that covers a lot of territory in the series.

http://pressdog.typepad.com/
best line from that article
Rookie of the Year -- Doornbos +42 on Rahal. Doornbos is a rookie in the sense that Kimi Raikkonen would be a "rookie" in Champ Car.

User avatar
Tom
0
Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

Post

Ys, but he is in a Minardi! And he only started 11 GP, he's already competed 13 Champcar races and won 2, after losing his front wing at turn one before his first victory.

Meanwhile Graham Rahal (son of legend, Bobby) has come up from a season of ChampCar Atlantic coming 2nd overall, a series which competes most of the same circuits as Champcar. He also competed the 24hours of Daytona event this year and the 12 hours of Sebring as well as driving for Lebonan (I think) in A1GP. He's hardly a rookie either.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Post

[quote="Tom"]Can an F1 car survive this? 8)
[img deleted by Belatti]
Poor Michael Park went through alot.[/quote:500:333]http://www.thenurburgring.com/media/p20 ... poster.jpg[/img]

PS: thanks Carlos! :D
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Post

Tom wrote: Can an F1 car survive this? 8)
Image

Poor Michael Park went through alot.
Maybe in the past they could...
Image

Ps: thanks Carlos! :wink:
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna