understeer not the cars fault?

[Scotracer]

I have seen plenty of videos and comments from commentators/journalists (although I don't have any on me) that highlight how Schumacher (and Raikkonen) preferred cars with a very "pointy" front end and a loose rear. Alonso on the other-hand preferred an understeering car...or at least a car that required a lot of front slip-angle to work.

However, in recent years with the control-tyres and now control slicks, I haven't seen Alonso doing his crazy aggressive turn in style that he was famous for during 2003-2006. And since we've never seen Schumacher on the control tyres, it's hard to imagine how he's driving it.

Actually, here's a video demo of what I've just said:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiMS6PwxsL4[/youtube]

[Jersey Tom]

The limit trim of all of those examples looks identical to me, even to the slightest bit understeer on the "Schumacher" example. If anything, that last example is about as neutral as you can get.. where if the balance starts to teeter on the side of plow or spin, the driver can catch and modulate it and stay on his line.

I think truly neutral is being misconstrued as oversteer here, just because it's so easy to slip past that boundary with enough forward load transfer, brake bias, or drive torque. In theory I'd say a car like that is going to be the quickest around the track on a perfect lap, but with very narrow margin for error.

I wouldn't even say the "Alonso" example is understeer as much as it is slightly numbed in transient maneuvers and very precise. I really don't agree with the comment that he "throws" the car into the corner. He doesn't. When I think of throwing or pitching a car into a corner I think of short track racing and holding the car half sideways on entry. The "Alonso" setup is just such that he can really feel out corner entry with sweeping steering inputs to see where he needs to be.. without worrying about getting into trouble.

Just my 2 cents.

[Giblet]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm0X0J0r ... r_embedded[/youtube]

Take what you want from this chat, but the 2009+ cars tend to oversteer more than older cars, so being a good oversteer driver is more of a requirement than an option.

[RH1300S]

Before arguing about oversteer and understeer it is important the separate which part of a corner we are talking about each time (entry, mid, exit).

I'm inclined to agree with Tom - neutral to slight understeer mid corner would seem to be quicker for a traction limited car, allowing a stable platform and able to accept the power for the exit.

I will say that in watching Michael Schumacher drive it is obvious that he induces slight corner entry oversteer needing minimal lock to get the job done. It's all very subtle 'though. Even then you wouldn't necessarily conclude that he likes an oversteering car. Some of the assumption about his preferences stem from comments made by people who have tried to drive cars developed for him (remember when Alesi went to Benetton?). I suspect the truth is that Michael likes his cars set up much closer to the fine line that Tom describes and other drivers can't cope.