understeer not the cars fault?

[adam2007]

is understeer the cars fault or when the driver pushes to hard into a corner and car slides wide. i know car can cause it with its weight, or suspenion or tyres etc but if he drives slow u would not get understeer, is it combi of both?>

[RacingManiac]

The car can have a tendency to understeer, based on the way it uses the tire, aero, setup, condition...etc

The driver ultimately put the car in that condition, and it is the driver who have react to it. A car with tendency to oversteer, or neutral can still be driven into understeer by the driver's input...

[Jersey Tom]

Both. If the car goes off the circuit, the driver has f'd up.

The limit trim (plow/spin) is certainly a function of both the vehicle system and the state the driver has put it in.

Also, you can have understeer while driving slow... balance is a parameter on the full range of handling. Not just at the limit.

[domdogger]

If the car slides off from the front its the drivers fault, as the engineers would have chosen the correct set-up for that track.

[marcush.]

If the car slides off from the front its the drivers fault, as the engineers would have chosen the correct set-up for that track.

as they know better ...

[Giblet]

People have a tendency to turn in too much for corners as well, and if turn in has not begun, you are just plowing instantly.

It's that whole feeling the grip thing.

1 more post. I hope its not stupid.

[speedsense]

is understeer the cars fault or when the driver pushes to hard into a corner and car slides wide. i know car can cause it with its weight, or suspenion or tyres etc but if he drives slow u would not get understeer, is it combi of both?>

If a "driver pushes too hard into a corner" one end of the car is going to give up. On entry and turn in, with the weight transfer to the front (ala trailing braking) the chances of understeer are less and an ample driver who's aware of impending understeer will drive around it, inducing oversteer to counteract it.
If the corner involves no braking for it, it becomes less driver input to induce a change and much more the chassis as the limiting factor.
Having an oversteer tendency on turn in, it is extremely difficult for a driver to induce understeer to counter it, other than reducing speed or reducing trail brake (in some cases, no trail brake) to induce some understeer.
Understeer, is not easily induced by the driver but rather by the chassis setup. So it's a bit of both, with the driver driving around the problem. IMHO

[autogyro]

Phew, what a question.
I will tell you one thing.
No computer is ever going to deal with the effects at racing speed.

[Scotracer]

It's definitely both, as Tom alluded too. I have seen many a driver get in to a car (in this instance, it was a track-prepared Integra Type R; FWD, 200BHP+, 900kg) and have completely different experiences on-track. Driver input is particularly vital in FWD, I've found, to stop understeer.

A driver could equally push too hard in to a corner and the back-end step out on them...or if you have a magically perfectly balanced car (and equally good driver), it may just slide off the track in unison.

[autogyro]

As to FWD verses RWD, I remember the simple way we used to recognise top drivers in saloon racing and short circuit ovals.
On the high powered Minis, the inside rear wheel had to be at least a foot off the ground.
On the Lotus Cortinas and early Escorts, the front inside wheel had to be a foot off the ground.
Can you work that one out?

[RH1300S]

As to FWD verses RWD, I remember the simple way we used to recognise top drivers in saloon racing and short circuit ovals.
On the high powered Minis, the inside rear wheel had to be at least a foot off the ground.
On the Lotus Cortinas and early Escorts, the front inside wheel had to be a foot off the ground.
Can you work that one out?

Roll axis inclination.........

[RH1300S]

To answer the question, without doubt poor driving can cause understeer. Charging at a corner hard on the brakes with the tyres on fire and expecting the car to turn is a sure way to get understeer.

Just take a standard hatchback car - basically an understeerer (to stop old ladies leaving the road backwards ) - a sensitive driver will understand this and arrive at a corner very differently to one who doesn't.

[Giblet]

Slow in, fast out will almost always be quicker than fast in, slow out.

Fast in, fast out is of course ideal.

[autogyro]

1. Ten tenths motoring, arrive at the corner entry with a balanced car at the right speed to allow the apex to be clipped and power applied asap.
(F1 with DF and cars way above most drivers ability)

2. Eleven tenths (tell me about it). Arrive at the corner entry to fast for any chance of the above. Throw the car sideways to slip off speed through the corner making sure control is 'sort of' retained and the apex is clipped with the car in full drift. Apply power (very carefuly) as soon as a way out of the corner is confirmed, on the grass probably.

In budget saloons with Capri limited by regs to no brakes after two laps.
Do the same as two above but time it so the car can be 'leaned' on a convenient Rover with working brakes. (hide in paddock after race)

[RH1300S]

Perhaps Ten Tenths & Eleven Tenths are actually the same thing. The only difference being the drivers limitations telling him that he is either at 'ten' or 'eleven'. In both cases the car needs to arrive at the apex balanced and ready for power.

If (in my dreams.... ) I could even take one corner the same way Michael Schumacher might (any car will do!!) - my entire brain will be screaming 'eleven tenths' !!!! Michael's brain doing the same thing is having a quiet chat about being at 'nine tenths' (or less).