Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

[PlatinumZealot]

There is no way to out drive your car. The car can only provide x amount of grip you cant get more than that. Not that any one in this thread will care...

I think you can because the tyres change all the time, the track changes, you can put the car where others don't dare, and the engine can be controlled in so many ways.
You could argue that the driver can raise the "rated" limit. Sort of using the car beyond "recommended use."

Who knew that Hamilton could get 2 hundreths of a second close to Vettel in Hunguary Q2 using soft tyres? How did Alonso's tyres last so long in Korea? Vettel driving on those supersofts for 80 laps in Monaco! lol. Remember Hamilton driving the wheels of that damn thing in Barcelona?! Silverstone 2008!!! 2011 Germany Q3!!

Yes.. normal drivers can't go beyond the "tested limits" but a few of them can get that extra swivel out of the car when it matters most.

[flynfrog]

There is no way to out drive your car. The car can only provide x amount of grip you cant get more than that. Not that any one in this thread will care...

I think you can because the tyres change all the time, the track changes, you can put the car where others don't dare, and the engine can be controlled in so many ways.
You could argue that the driver can raise the "rated" limit. Sort of using the car beyond "recommended use."

Who knew that Hamilton could get 2 hundreths of a second close to Vettel in Hunguary Q2 using soft tyres? How did Alonso's tyres last so long in Korea? Vettel driving on those supersofts for 80 laps in Monaco! lol. Remember Hamilton driving the wheels of that damn thing in Barcelona?! Silverstone 2008!!! 2011 Germany Q3!!

Yes.. normal drivers can't go beyond the "tested limits" but a few of them can get that extra swivel out of the car when it matters most.

so you have a way of quantifying extra swivel then?

[SiLo]

If you come out of a corner with the arse of the car sliding all over the place, but are technically quicker than previously when it wasn't (because you took more speed in) surely that would count as outdriving the car. Put simply, it's gone beyond it grip limit and you are now sliding, but going faster, thus outdriving the car.

It usually ends up slower because it creates the opportunity to make too many mistakes, but sometimes it can be faster.

[beelsebob]

It usually ends up slower because it creates the opportunity to make too many mistakes, but sometimes it can be faster.

It usually ends up slower for more reasons than that – by breaking traction, you leave yourself compromised for when you want to put the power down, and if you want to break.

ABS slowly your road car down faster than skidding because you get more traction when you're not sliding – same story with trying to accelerate out of a corner.

[ajdavison2]

If you come out of a corner with the arse of the car sliding all over the place, but are technically quicker than previously when it wasn't (because you took more speed in) surely that would count as outdriving the car. Put simply, it's gone beyond it grip limit and you are now sliding, but going faster, thus outdriving the car.

It usually ends up slower because it creates the opportunity to make too many mistakes, but sometimes it can be faster.

Not to go back in a circle, but this is what the topic is about, Hamilton prefers his cars set up with a little bit of oversteer (I think? ) so he can slide the car, and it seems to work for him, (most of the time).

[myurr]

ABS slowly your road car down faster than skidding because you get more traction when you're not sliding – same story with trying to accelerate out of a corner.

And yet that's not true in snow and ice where ABS actually increases braking distances. There are nearly always edge cases where the unexpected can happen.

[beelsebob]

ABS slowly your road car down faster than skidding because you get more traction when you're not sliding – same story with trying to accelerate out of a corner.

And yet that's not true in snow and ice where ABS actually increases braking distances. There are nearly always edge cases where the unexpected can happen.

Uhh no, if your alternatives are skidding and using ABS, ABS will dramatically shorten your stopping distance on ice.

In snow, you have a point because the wheels can dig in when skidding, on ice – no. This edge case does not apply to trying to exit a corner on a tarmac surface though.

Of course, if you add the option "manually pump the break", it may get closer, but ABS will almost always win still.

[flynfrog]

If you come out of a corner with the arse of the car sliding all over the place, but are technically quicker than previously when it wasn't (because you took more speed in) surely that would count as outdriving the car. Put simply, it's gone beyond it grip limit and you are now sliding, but going faster, thus outdriving the car.

It usually ends up slower because it creates the opportunity to make too many mistakes, but sometimes it can be faster.

wrong... A car at the optimal slip angle with tires fully saturated will be faster than hanging the arse end out. Try again. You cant get more than 100% of a car

[ringo]

If you come out of a corner with the arse of the car sliding all over the place, but are technically quicker than previously when it wasn't (because you took more speed in) surely that would count as outdriving the car. Put simply, it's gone beyond it grip limit and you are now sliding, but going faster, thus outdriving the car.

It usually ends up slower because it creates the opportunity to make too many mistakes, but sometimes it can be faster.

wrong... A car at the optimal slip angle with tires fully saturated will be faster than hanging the arse end out. Try again. You cant get more than 100% of a car

Which driver is going to get the perfect slip angles for every turn?

The whole idea is to push the car where the other guy doesn't have the balls to do.

I doubt most drivers a taking 85% out of the car in all conditions.

[flynfrog]

If you come out of a corner with the arse of the car sliding all over the place, but are technically quicker than previously when it wasn't (because you took more speed in) surely that would count as outdriving the car. Put simply, it's gone beyond it grip limit and you are now sliding, but going faster, thus outdriving the car.

It usually ends up slower because it creates the opportunity to make too many mistakes, but sometimes it can be faster.

wrong... A car at the optimal slip angle with tires fully saturated will be faster than hanging the arse end out. Try again. You cant get more than 100% of a car

Which driver is going to get the perfect slip angles for every turn?

The whole idea is to push the car where the other guy doesn't have the balls to do.

I doubt most drivers a taking 85% out of the car in all conditions.

the guy who is passing the moron hanging the back end out.

I read a book a while back I cant remember what one it was. But suggest most F1 drivers were in the 95% range some could go a little over a few laps but not a race distance. Sorry to bring logic into your driver worship thread continue.....

[ringo]

Stop feeding of the logic man.
You though a driver was getting 100% didn't you? And anyone else going over must be breaking the laws of physics?

There is no guy passing the guy hanging the back end out. Theoritcally the loss of grip means the car is not being fully used. But then you have to consider the setup differences between these 2 drivers.
Oversteer is not desirable, but if it means a car can be faster over a lap while compromising drivability the driver who's sliding the back out is probably driving a faster car than his teammate who has a milder setup with a lower threshold.
The fighter plane analogy comes in again.

[raymondu999]

Fighter plane analogy? I'm not familiar with that one. Also, it's not a given that sliding a back out WILL or even CAN be faster than a "milder" setup, which I believe you're referring more to what Jenson Button would call to be "balanced," am I correct?

[HampusA]

ABS slowly your road car down faster than skidding because you get more traction when you're not sliding – same story with trying to accelerate out of a corner.

And yet that's not true in snow and ice where ABS actually increases braking distances. There are nearly always edge cases where the unexpected can happen.

Uhh no, if your alternatives are skidding and using ABS, ABS will dramatically shorten your stopping distance on ice.

In snow, you have a point because the wheels can dig in when skidding, on ice – no. This edge case does not apply to trying to exit a corner on a tarmac surface though.

Of course, if you add the option "manually pump the break", it may get closer, but ABS will almost always win still.

This isn´t true. ABS is not better then the driver in snow or icy conditions.
My guess would be in wet aswell.
I´ve seen Porsche tests made with and without ABS in dry conditions and the driver bested ABS.

ABS, TCS etc makes you more consistent, not faster over a lap etc.

[raymondu999]

I think Beelsebob means perfectly tuned ABS where it is 100% in tune with the car's grip levels

[SiLo]

Back on topic, why is he so good on the brakes? I feel this also helps him when peforming overtakes.