No, I have never said that. If you would read my posts with the intention of understanding them instead of a total pre occupation against me I would not have to explain it again.myurr wrote:White Blue, you still believe this is all just a PR spin story invented by Webber?
I'm now talking of the things "which, with hindsight goggles on, probably shouldn’t have been said." Here the element of spin mastering and psyop come into it. By 6 pm latest, Webber by his own admission had all the explanations. One would expect him to signal that to the press and limit the damage that the wing incident had done to the team and the reputation of his team mate. He did not do this. Webber kept fanning the media frency for the next 22 hours including his post race team radio and press comments.Mark Webber, markwebber.com wrote:My disappointment on Saturday after qualifying spilled over into Sunday but it was simply due to the fact that I, along with every other driver on the grid, wanted the best possible chance of success.
Sebastian received the newer front wing for reasons which were not clearly explained to me until Saturday late afternoon. Obviously I can see why a team may at certain points have to favour a driver with more points in the championship, if there are only enough resources to fully support one of us.
We’ve already debriefed the race weekend at the factory and have cleared the air. It’s now understood that, should we face this unlikely dilemma again, preference will go to the championship points leader. Of course things get said in the heat of the moment which, with hindsight goggles on, probably shouldn’t have been said.
Sorry - I didn't make myself clear - I understand why MW is P****d off. What I don't understand is why, if there was such a small performance difference given RB's speed advantage, CH et al would be stupid enough to cause such a disproportionate amount of grief.BreezyRacer wrote:Well imagine yourself going thru 3 practice sessions with that wing .. setting up the balance, the weight distribution, roll stiffness, wing settings, etc and getting ready to qualify. Then someone doesn't even asks, he just comes along and takes your wing and leaves you with a wing you were not planning on using. Not only that but he gives that wing to your team mate. That is what happened.db__ wrote:For goodness sakes don't encourage him [-Xmyurr wrote: White Blue, you still believe this is all just a PR spin story invented by Webber?
The think I fail to understand was Christian Horner's insistence thatIf there was really such an imperceptible difference between the two wings then why cause such controversy with a change which would cause more psychological than actual effect. Either CH is fundamentally incompetent at management or there was a greater performance difference and he is actually, instead, a liar."the performance difference between the two [wings] is absolutely minimal"
Either way it seems that the team (not the drivers, both of whom I think are innocent in this) is doing everything in it's power to make winning either championship as difficult as possible.
One could consider the reasons that were officially given by the team. Adrian Newey is doing constant development on aerodynamic components and wanted the feed back from a variety of race situations to verify that aggressive turn in was indeed improved by this wing. He wasn't aware that his intentions would be miscommunicated to Webber. A more balanced person or a person with more team spirit would probably have not felt as much grief as Webber. Communication is always a two way affair and the driver can help bad communication by addressing issues timely and internally.db__ wrote:Sorry - I didn't make myself clear - I understand why MW is P****d off. What I don't understand is why, if there was such a small performance difference given RB's speed advantage, CH et al would be stupid enough to cause such a disproportionate amount of grief.
Understanding the teams reason is not the same as accepting or agreeing with it and neither is it excusing or condoning the teams behaviour. It is disingenuous to suggest his actions are damaging to the team or the reputation(?) of his team mate when said team mate is the beneficiary of team disadvantaging him (besides the only reputation Seb "the prat" Vettel has is that he needs his team handicapping his team mate for him to succeed). Think about it, they give Marks wing to "the prat" then explain to him "by 6 pm latest", no less, that this was due to a policy which did not previously exist and infact was made up just then to justify their actions. You are conveniently forgetting that both Mark and Seb are still very much in the championship hunt, so why disadvantage one for the other. This is worse than Ferrari telling Rubens to move aside for Schu-"the chin"-Macher in Austria very early in that season. Limit damage you say? Well boo-effing-hoo, they brought it on themselves. What about the damage to his chances for the WDC?WhiteBlue wrote:By 6 pm latest, Webber by his own admission had all the explanations. One would expect him to signal that to the press and limit the damage that the wing incident had done to the team and the reputation of his team mate. He did not do this. Webber kept fanning the media frency for the next 22 hours including his post race team radio and press comments.
If thats the explanation, thats ok then, innit? Implying Mark is incapable of providing said feedback is even less reason to feel so aggrieved. So Mark must therefore be aggrieved because he is less balanced. Good summation, well done that man!WhiteBlue wrote:Adrian Newey is doing constant development on aerodynamic components and wanted the feed back from a variety of race situations to verify that aggressive turn in was indeed improved by this wing. He wasn't aware that his intentions would be miscommunicated to Webber. A more balanced person or a person with more team spirit would probably have not felt as much grief as Webber.
You have a one sided view IMO. There was only one component after the wing came back from testing and the criterion given by Horner makes sense. Unfortunately he made a mistake in communicating the decision properly.mcdenife wrote: You are conveniently forgetting that both Mark and Seb are still very much in the championship hunt, so why disadvantage one for the other.
If thats the explanation, thats ok then, innit? Implying Mark is incapable of providing said feedback is even less reason to feel so aggrieved. So Mark must therefore be aggrieved because he is less balanced. Good summation, well done that man!Adrian Newey is doing constant development on aerodynamic components and wanted the feed back from a variety of race situations to verify that aggressive turn in was indeed improved by this wing. He wasn't aware that his intentions would be miscommunicated to Webber. A more balanced person or a person with more team spirit would probably have not felt as much grief as Webber.
Nope. They shared one wing for FP1 and FP2 when only one wing was available on Friday. Then they used one wing each when two wings were available for FP3 on Saturday. For qualifying the one wing was coming back which was tested ok and a new allocation had to be made. This has nothing to do with a private car. The cars belong to the team and are allocated by team decision and procedure. So are new components after testing.Paul wrote:What's the difference? That was still the wing from Webber's car and should have been put back after the tests. If you come to a service station and parts are taken off your car you still consider them parts of your car and expect them to be put back, don't you?
So let me get this straight, you have a new component on each car. It breaks on A's car and a fault is found presumably. So it is taken off B's car to check it doesnt have similar fault. The part is found to not have the same fault but rather than put back on the B's car you give to A because of the new policy, just made up by way, that he is ahead in the championship and some convoluted allocations argument. And you still find B's anger and reaction strange?WhiteBlue wrote:The wing was actually taken away after P3 to be nondestructively tested following the failure of the other wing on Seb's car. It should have been pretty easy for Pilbeam/Webber to confirm with factory sources that indeed this test was carried out. I don't see that this wing had to re allocated after the test to Webber.