Strange going-ons at Red Bull

[BreezyRacer]

It has come out that Mark Webber was instructed into fuel saving mode mode just before the "incident" with Vettel in Turkey. There are also rumors that Vettel was instructed to go "full power" mode just before said accident. There are also rumors that there is a rift in the team brewing between the english speaking members and the german speaking members.

Any other team that wanted a driver to step aside for another would at least have a code or some kind of radio contact to prevent the multi layered stupidity that occurred in Turkey, wouldn't they?

So all this begs the question of this pole ..

[Fil]

i note your intention for this thread to not directly discuss the actual accident in Turkey. But if that's being discussed even in the McLaren thread, this one has no hope.


For what its worth, and trying to keep it strictly on your topic, i highly doubt Red Bull would be going to those lengths.


And here's my only reasoning - Mark is too honest, straightforward & direct a character to keep such a situation silent were it be happening.

He's complained publicly at each of his teams when he's unhappy with the situation, and nothing will change him at Red Bull.

[wesley123]

same happened with mclaren, nothing wrong with that, it is the drivers choise to actually execute the order.

[BreezyRacer]

This article sums up what this thread is about ..
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=40999

It's not Vettel vs Webber at one corner of a race track. It's more about the team management seemingly manipulating circumstance towards their apparently favorite driver.

[Jersey Tom]

Key word here being "rumors."

[wesley123]

true, and afterall it is the drivers own choise to follow up those orders or not.

[WhiteBlue]

I do not believe that Mark Webber is under fire at Red Bull. I just think that Marko wanted Vettel to use his short fuel advantage to pass Webber. He thought that Vettel would create a bigger gap than Webber would. So Webber would be riding shot gun and Vettel would hopefully create a bit of a gap in front of him.

Vettel had slightly better tyres and a small fuel advantage due to his run in the slip stream of Webber. The chance that both Red Bulls would have fallen into the clutches of Hamilton with his speed advantage on the back straight would have been reduced. IMO not such a clever idea when you consider that Vettel would have used up his fuel advantage mainly to pass Webber and not to make the gap much bigger. Any tyre advantage he had would also not have lasted.

Red Bull had put Vettel on a leaner fuel mix one lap later and that was not enough time for the team order to be passed down the ranks from Marko to Horner, the race engineer and to Webber. It also appears that Red Bull had not sorted their approach to team order out sufficiently before and during the race to bring something like that off in just one lap.

You have to talk to both drivers and get the consent of the driver who is supposed to yield. They clearly did not do that and Vettel knew he had just one lap to make it stick which made the whole attempt a bit desperate. I do not believe after some investigation into this affair that there will be a lasting consequence other than Webber being a bit more wary about the Austrian ex driver. The other thing that will probably happen is that Horner will have to sort out the team order code and the conditions for the drivers.

[andrew]

He was told to turn the engine down to save fuel and to protect the engine. Simple as that. All teams do this.

[nipo]

I am quite disappointed with what the RB team has to say and what some guys here have to say as well... To me Mark didn't do a thing as to move a finger's length towards Vettel's car. Vettel had enough room for braking and had he braked earlier he would have been able to take the corner on the inside line. Instead he moved sideways and they touched.

For those of you who think "Mark should have given way" let me remind you of the Hamilton-Button duel which is praised by so many. Those two bloody FOUGHT! Same way as Vettel and Mark. None of them gave way. It was just that the McLaren pair had a sense not to assume they "had the line" and expect the other to move over when they are actually RACING each other. Somehow the RB team (and Vettel) thought different, which was stupid.

On-topic, I don't care what rumor has come out concerning fuel mixes and team radios or team orders screwing up etc. The interview with Marko (available on formula1.com) is enough evidence that the RB team at least "had an inclination" towards Vettel leading the race. He being chased by Hamilton was far too weak a reason for that, for me. I couldn't understand why Vettel couldn't have done the defending job even if Mark's in front - Mark's done his fair share of defensive driving on that pace! Simply, the team was leading 1-2, they should have kept everything the same and bring it back home.

On the other hand, RB seems to be doing exactly that. They told Mark to tune the car down and that's usually a sign of "keep things under control and bring it home". If (1) Vettel didn't get that message, then this was a team influence; or (2) Vettel got the same message but didn't play ball, he took his chance. Anyway it was none of Mark's fault.

IMO, RB is responsible for creating this mess. There's a lot of tension in the team now and they just slipped in the Constructors' as well. This is the sort of situation where despite the best efforts, little can be salvaged. How sad.

[wesley123]

Vettel didnt do anything wrong either, he probably hit the dirt somehwere wich generated the move to the right, Vettel nor Webber did steer into each other

[BreezyRacer]

Vettel didnt do anything wrong either, he probably hit the dirt somehwere wich generated the move to the right, Vettel nor Webber did steer into each other

I'm really thinking that the jog to the right was to knock wheels to get Webber to move off line. Problem is that Vettel was a little late.

[raymondu999]

Adam Cooper on Helmut Marko: http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/05/31/helm ... as-slower/

[wesley123]

Vettel didnt do anything wrong either, he probably hit the dirt somehwere wich generated the move to the right, Vettel nor Webber did steer into each other

I'm really thinking that the jog to the right was to knock wheels to get Webber to move off line. Problem is that Vettel was a little late.

With 300 km/h, i am really sure that vettel is smart enough to know that that doesnt work.

It was a simple racing accident, none of them can be really blamed.

[BreezyRacer]

Vettel didnt do anything wrong either, he probably hit the dirt somehwere wich generated the move to the right, Vettel nor Webber did steer into each other

I'm really thinking that the jog to the right was to knock wheels to get Webber to move off line. Problem is that Vettel was a little late.

With 300 km/h, i am really sure that vettel is smart enough to know that that doesnt work.

It was a simple racing accident, none of them can be really blamed.

Actually it works quite well .. Lewis and Button did it that way in turn 1 and most often that's how contact occurs because the drivers know they can survive that kind of hit. Yes, they really are that good .. except maybe Vettel ..

[wesley123]

I'm really thinking that the jog to the right was to knock wheels to get Webber to move off line. Problem is that Vettel was a little late.

With 300 km/h, i am really sure that vettel is smart enough to know that that doesnt work.

It was a simple racing accident, none of them can be really blamed.

Actually it works quite well .. Lewis and Button did it that way in turn 1 and most often that's how contact occurs because the drivers know they can survive that kind of hit. Yes, they really are that good .. except maybe Vettel ..

i am very sure you dont go into the first turn with 300KM/H