2025 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23 - 25

[Farnborough]

Having four cars on track must be quite an advantage on tracks known for having DRS trains etc.

Monaco made it more obvious, but clear air gaps might be easier to come by when you have three team mates.

And the reality ..... Hadjar and Lawson fully dedicated to their own team performance, rightly so and fine individual performance too.
Tsunoda .... contributing just about Chuff all to Verstappen race, no support there. Maybe from circumstances, but still Verstappen was completely on his own.

If insinuation is to be made, then factual observation and relevancy woukd be part of the comment ... substantially lacking in this case

[Farnborough]

Another topic with this quote from race direction

"“We therefore considered that Car 63’s deliberate infringement warranted a drive-through penalty, and so we imposed.”

In response to Russel "activity" and self determination in flouting the rules, of which he's aware, in contrast to all the bleeting in Qatar Q last year ! Making it clear here, and in the past (Monza ? ) that he doesn't hold himself to the same rules as he expects other to comply with !

He as driver representative too .... this grandiose dismissal and arrogant application of compliance as he sees fit, should be further examined by race direction as it keeps happening.

To apply one standard in judgment of others .... then one in contrast for himself ..... shows a callous disregard for the sport he's signed himself up for.

[Cs98]

Having four cars on track must be quite an advantage on tracks known for having DRS trains etc.

Monaco made it more obvious, but clear air gaps might be easier to come by when you have three team mates.

And the reality ..... Hadjar and Lawson fully dedicated to their own team performance, rightly so and fine individual performance too.
Tsunoda .... contributing just about Chuff all to Verstappen race, no support there. Maybe from circumstances, but still Verstappen was completely on his own.

If insinuation is to be made, then factual observation and relevancy woukd be part of the comment ... substantially lacking in this case

Indeed. But if people want something to be true they will not let reality stop them from believing it.

[restless]

the one and only most boring waste-of-time GP.
I will never understand why is this laughing simulation of a race in the calendar.
Oh, wait, money talks...
Whats next?
Pitstop every 30minutes, random "rain", monkeys throwing bananas?

[Sawtooth-spike]

Monaco should be time attack ( qualifying with points awarded).
Saturday time attack for maximum of 12.5 points, with Q1, Q2, Q3, but 1.5hrs for the session instead of 1 hour.
and Sunday another round of the same knock out time attach for the remaining 12.5 points, another 1.5 hours.
The man with the most points over the weekend gets the big trophy.
And that's the end of the Monaco weekend.

Something like this would be great to watch. I am not sure you could call it a grand prix though.

[bluechris]

Just make them race with superkarts with refuelling... or something a bit bigger but superfast and small

[basti313]

Another topic with this quote from race direction

"“We therefore considered that Car 63’s deliberate infringement warranted a drive-through penalty, and so we imposed.”

In response to Russel "activity" and self determination in flouting the rules, of which he's aware, in contrast to all the bleeting in Qatar Q last year ! Making it clear here, and in the past (Monza ? ) that he doesn't hold himself to the same rules as he expects other to comply with !

He as driver representative too .... this grandiose dismissal and arrogant application of compliance as he sees fit, should be further examined by race direction as it keeps happening.

To apply one standard in judgment of others .... then one in contrast for himself ..... shows a callous disregard for the sport he's signed himself up for.

Well, I do not see it that strong or that vicious. With the Willies and the RBs playing games, it was the correct way to just pass.

The problem is...they are just stupid/arrogant. The same arrogancy, that lets Verstappen get it. And he will get it more badly if he keeps pissing off the stewards.
Russel played the victim quite well in the past, now he tries the same stupid arrogancy.

Even worse, he does not do it well. Just go past on the first, claim he had to avoid the collision or just keep radio silence...gets him a 10sec, maybe even just a 5sec.
But pulling back on the first, saying he takes the pen on the second...that is just stupid.

[Lazy]

Pleasantries first - congrats Lando, that was a weekend when you answered your critics. In style. Well deserved.

I mean, he barely got pole and the win in very clearly the fastest car on the grid. He deserved the win, but I dont know that I'd consider it a terribly impressive performance overall.

Not sure it was clearly faster at this circuit, the Ferrari looked like it had the edge tbh.

[Sphere3758]

Pleasantries first - congrats Lando, that was a weekend when you answered your critics. In style. Well deserved.

I mean, he barely got pole and the win in very clearly the fastest car on the grid. He deserved the win, but I dont know that I'd consider it a terribly impressive performance overall.

Not sure it was clearly faster at this circuit, the Ferrari looked like it had the edge tbh.

Using Leclerc as a reference at Monaco to judge the Mclaren is unfair though. Since 2021, the guy has either been on pole or a tenth off, irrespective of the car. In a dominant car in 2022, he would have gotten pole by 6 tenths.

[avantman]

I mean, he barely got pole and the win in very clearly the fastest car on the grid. He deserved the win, but I dont know that I'd consider it a terribly impressive performance overall.

Not sure it was clearly faster at this circuit, the Ferrari looked like it had the edge tbh.

Using Leclerc as a reference at Monaco to judge the Mclaren is unfair though. Since 2021, the guy has either been on pole or a tenth off, irrespective of the car. In a dominant car in 2022, he would have gotten pole by 6 tenths.

Should we use Hamilton as a reference instead who was beaten by Bottas by more than 5 tenths in Monaco Q twice, and on the 2nd occasion, in 2021 it would be 8 tenths at very least had Bottas completed his second run. Only he and Max was improving massively and either of them would've gotten that pole. Meanwhile both Ham and Lec had both runs but were slower than their 1st runs.
Leclerc is extremely good on street circuits of course. He is probably the only driver who says they are his favorites circuits. (most fav's are spa and suzuka, few brits say silverstone). But that doesnot mean Leclerc miraculously finds pace that is not there in the car, his pace rather comes from his ability to put all together in Q3. When it comes to his teammate, his only real reference around Monaco is Sainz. In 2021 they were dead equal on theoreticals, and Sainz was more than 0.15s faster on S1 alone, which means there was significantly more in that car. Sainz also had traffic and messed up Q3 run. In 2023 there was just 0.15s between them in Q3, less than a tenth on theoreticals. In 2022 and 2024 it was bigger - 0.25s, but still nothing really like truly incredible, given it's Sainz, who was for reference 3 tenths slower than Max in 2015 and totally nowhere next to Albon last weekend, and this time new car excuse doesn't work obviously, he was on it already in the previous couple of weekends. Ferrari is fast in Monaco, that is a fact, you can't say it's just Charles. It's barely possible to say with full confidence if it was faster or slower than the Mclaren Over one lap because Norris is no slouch in Monaco either. His Q3 lap in 2021 was the best of all in the top 5 IMO, he nearly got eventual pole in a car that was lacking so much compared with top 3.

[Waz]

Not sure it was clearly faster at this circuit, the Ferrari looked like it had the edge tbh.

Using Leclerc as a reference at Monaco to judge the Mclaren is unfair though. Since 2021, the guy has either been on pole or a tenth off, irrespective of the car. In a dominant car in 2022, he would have gotten pole by 6 tenths.

Should we use Hamilton as a reference instead who was beaten by Bottas by more than 5 tenths in Monaco Q twice, and on the 2nd occasion, in 2021 it would be 8 tenths at very least had Bottas completed his second run. Only he and Max was improving massively and either of them would've gotten that pole. Meanwhile both Ham and Lec had both runs but were slower than their 1st runs.
Leclerc is extremely good on street circuits of course. He is probably the only driver who says they are his favorites circuits. (most fav's are spa and suzuka, few brits say silverstone). But that doesnot mean Leclerc miraculously finds pace that is not there in the car, his pace rather comes from his ability to put all together in Q3. When it comes to his teammate, his only real reference around Monaco is Sainz. In 2021 they were dead equal on theoreticals, and Sainz was more than 0.15s faster on S1 alone, which means there was significantly more in that car. Sainz also had traffic and messed up Q3 run. In 2023 there was just 0.15s between them in Q3, less than a tenth on theoreticals. In 2022 and 2024 it was bigger - 0.25s, but still nothing really like truly incredible, given it's Sainz, who was for reference 3 tenths slower than Max in 2015 and totally nowhere next to Albon last weekend, and this time new car excuse doesn't work obviously, he was on it already in the previous couple of weekends. Ferrari is fast in Monaco, that is a fact, you can't say it's just Charles. It's barely possible to say with full confidence if it was faster or slower than the Mclaren Over one lap because Norris is no slouch in Monaco either. His Q3 lap in 2021 was the best of all in the top 5 IMO, he nearly got eventual pole in a car that was lacking so much compared with top 3.

1 Ferrari finished 2nd a few seconds off the lead. The other one was 4th, 50 seconds off the lead.

1 McLaren won the race, the second one was 3rd, a few seconds off the lead.

Which car was really the better one? Be honest with us here.

[basti313]

1 Ferrari finished 2nd a few seconds off the lead. The other one was 4th, 50 seconds off the lead.

1 McLaren won the race, the second one was 3rd, a few seconds off the lead.

Which car was really the better one? Be honest with us here.

Does this make any sense?
I would like to join any discussion on Ham's or Ferrari's incompetence, but I fear this does not make sense here...

Discussing the car does not make sense as generally Ferrari has much more priority on their Monaco and Monza specials. Next race they will be nowhere again and back for Monza...

Discussing the gaps does not make sense, as Ham far off the lead was struck much worse with blue flag issues. They are paying attention to the lead, not P5. And no one was pushing at the end, you could see how Nor was not on the maximum pace.

[Vettel165]

Charles was overdriving the car, he is a beast around Monaco. No doubt.

[avantman]

1 Ferrari finished 2nd a few seconds off the lead. The other one was 4th, 50 seconds off the lead.

1 McLaren won the race, the second one was 3rd, a few seconds off the lead.

Which car was really the better one? Be honest with us here.

Race gaps between teammates do not reveal anything except what we already knew. No car is better than the Mclaren on race days on any track this year. Looked like Norris could pull a gap easily wherever he needed to. Single lap performance is completely different story though. I saw the only major mistake on Norris pole lap in T15-16, that was worth around a tenth. I also watched their onboards side by side multiple times to see Norris coming significantly closer to the barriers on entry in several corners :casino, new chicane, swimming pool, which normally allows to gain laptime in Monaco. But particularly impressive he was at Rascasse where he effectively gained all he lost in T16 back, even more than that. Peter Windsor was talking so much the whole weekend on Charles (and Max) doing so much better job there, shortening the corner, coming from much tighter line. But looking on the onboards you can clearly see Norris doing much tighter line, shortening this tricky 'revealing' corner(as per Peter) and again coming a whole lot close to the barrier on the inside. Impressive stuff. With all honesty I do not really see how could anyone say decisively Charles lap was driven better, let alone much better.

[venkyhere]

as Ham far off the lead was struck much worse with blue flag issues

HAM was much slower than the top4 even in clean air. There is a post in the Ferrari team thread which clearly spells this out, with lap numbers and time deltas with VER. If HAM was fast in clean air and didn't have a 45s gap to VER ahead, even if it was sub 20s, he still could have finished 4th when VER was forced to take his mandatory pitstop in lap78.
https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... 0#p1288510