2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[deadhead]

Doubt that. If (big if) the rear suspension allows the Ferrari to run the car as designed, the car can be in amongst VER and the McL.

TD018 should bring McL towards Ferrari. The Silverstone fix should bring FER further along. The real concern is what RB look like in Spain, as I think they might take McL's role as the clear lead force.

Huge amount of ifs

Completely but saying we won't win all season with all these unknows is a big if too.

The chances of winning a race are much smaller than not doing so this season. Based on what we know, I’d put the split at 80/20 in favor of not winning, and that’s generous.

[Spacepace]

Our only chance of winning a race this season is probably gone.

Monza could be very good for Ferrari

Why?

Rides kerbs the best

[dialtone]

This forum can be doom and gloom even after a good result.


Nuts.

[Nani_s23]

This forum can be doom and gloom even after a good result.


Nuts.

Ferrari SF-24 was in WCC title contention till last race 2024 season. So everybody including F1 pundits + fans expected McLaren vs RB vs Ferrari coming this season.

So being a TIFOSI, expectations were even higher. Compared to last season it’s a disappointment till this race.

Even if Ferrari make a come back like last season, it won’t be enough. Reason I don’t see McLaren falling back drastically after TD .

Ferrari are in the sport to win race’s/Titles. It’s not like other team, Ferrari carries some weight in the sport. So tuning down the expectation’s from fans is difficult to ask.

[dialtone]

This forum can be doom and gloom even after a good result.


Nuts.

Ferrari SF-24 was in WCC title contention till last race 2024 season. So everybody including F1 pundits + fans expected McLaren vs RB vs Ferrari coming this season.

So being a TIFOSI, expectations were even higher. Compared to last season it’s a disappointment till this race.

Even if Ferrari make a come back like last season, it won’t be enough. Reason I don’t see McLaren falling back drastically after TD .

Ferrari are in the sport to win race’s/Titles. It’s not like other team, Ferrari carries some weight in the sport. So tuning down the expectation’s from fans is difficult to ask.

Yes everyone knows that. I’ve been following this sport for more than 30 years.

At some point one has to come to terms with how the season is going and how they are progressing.

What’s the point of following just to have bad blood every weekend?

[venkyhere]

It was smart by Ferrari, Hamilton was never challenging VER, P5 was the best result for Lewis with the grid drop.

Why ? At what stage was that decided ? Hamiton was 'ahead' of the Lawson train in the first stint, right ? Then why did the team fall into this conclusion ? What was the pace of the guys between VER and HAM, and what did HAM do, when tehy pitted, did he speed up or not, to reduce the gap to VER ? I'm not able to recollect.

[Space-heat]

It was smart by Ferrari, Hamilton was never challenging VER, P5 was the best result for Lewis with the grid drop.

Why ? At what stage was that decided ? Hamiton was 'ahead' of the Lawson train in the first stint, right ? Then why did the team fall into this conclusion ? What was the pace of the guys between VER and HAM, and what did HAM do, when tehy pitted, did he speed up or not, to reduce the gap to VER ? I'm not able to recollect.

Quick notes from Multiviewer live timing.

TLDR Hamilton had no pace today. If he did, he and Charles could have worked for a win.

Lap 17
Hamilton released from Alonso (pit)
6.5 s gap to VER

Lap 19
Hamilton pit 1
6.7 s gap to VER

Hamilton pit out
25.2 s gap to VER
Ham 34.1 to lead
Ver 8.9 to lead

Lap 29
VER pit 1
3.5 s gap to VER on pit out. (Hamilton in mostly free air Lap 19-29)

lap 39
14.5 s gap to VER

Lap 49 (Hamilton in free air)
20.1 s gap to VER

Lap 57
ham pit 2
22.4 s to VER
pit out 43.6 s to VER

lap 78 - after VER pit
31 s gap to VER

The only thing I did not look at was getting past lapped cars but I think it is clear Hamilton did not have the pace of the top 4 today.

They rebuilt the rear of the car after FP3, maybe the balance was slightly off causing worse race pace or maybe the pit wall didn't give good enough instructions but the second one wouldn't account for the pace gap.

[venkyhere]

It was smart by Ferrari, Hamilton was never challenging VER, P5 was the best result for Lewis with the grid drop.

Why ? At what stage was that decided ? Hamiton was 'ahead' of the Lawson train in the first stint, right ? Then why did the team fall into this conclusion ? What was the pace of the guys between VER and HAM, and what did HAM do, when tehy pitted, did he speed up or not, to reduce the gap to VER ? I'm not able to recollect.

Quick notes from Multiviewer live timing.

TLDR Hamilton had no pace today. If he did, he and Charles could have worked for a win.

Lap 17
Hamilton released from Alonso (pit)
6.5 s gap to VER

Lap 19
Hamilton pit 1
6.7 s gap to VER

Hamilton pit out
25.2 s gap to VER
Ham 34.1 to lead
Ver 8.9 to lead

Lap 29
VER pit 1
3.5 s gap to VER on pit out. (Hamilton in mostly free air Lap 19-29)

lap 39
14.5 s gap to VER

Lap 49 (Hamilton in free air)
20.1 s gap to VER

Lap 57
ham pit 2
22.4 s to VER
pit out 43.6 s to VER

lap 78 - after VER pit
31 s gap to VER

The only thing I did not look at was getting past lapped cars but I think it is clear Hamilton did not have the pace of the top 4 today.

They rebuilt the rear of the car after FP3, maybe the balance was slightly off causing worse race pace or maybe the pit wall didn't give good enough instructions but the second one wouldn't account for the pace gap.

Thanks, so it was indeed a case of HAM being much slower than VER in clean air.

[f1316]

It was smart by Ferrari, Hamilton was never challenging VER, P5 was the best result for Lewis with the grid drop.

Why ? At what stage was that decided ? Hamiton was 'ahead' of the Lawson train in the first stint, right ? Then why did the team fall into this conclusion ? What was the pace of the guys between VER and HAM, and what did HAM do, when tehy pitted, did he speed up or not, to reduce the gap to VER ? I'm not able to recollect.

Quick notes from Multiviewer live timing.

TLDR Hamilton had no pace today. If he did, he and Charles could have worked for a win.

Lap 17
Hamilton released from Alonso (pit)
6.5 s gap to VER

Lap 19
Hamilton pit 1
6.7 s gap to VER

Hamilton pit out
25.2 s gap to VER
Ham 34.1 to lead
Ver 8.9 to lead

Lap 29
VER pit 1
3.5 s gap to VER on pit out. (Hamilton in mostly free air Lap 19-29)

lap 39
14.5 s gap to VER

Lap 49 (Hamilton in free air)
20.1 s gap to VER

Lap 57
ham pit 2
22.4 s to VER
pit out 43.6 s to VER

lap 78 - after VER pit
31 s gap to VER

The only thing I did not look at was getting past lapped cars but I think it is clear Hamilton did not have the pace of the top 4 today.

They rebuilt the rear of the car after FP3, maybe the balance was slightly off causing worse race pace or maybe the pit wall didn't give good enough instructions but the second one wouldn't account for the pace gap.

This is correct - Hamilton just didn’t have the same pace in the race as the leaders and/or he wasn’t bothering (he seemed very dour after the race). If he’d been closer, perhaps they could have done something different but probably not. I think the key point was that Norris’ ~6 second gap before the second stop gave them the buffer to respond - Charles got it down to around 4 seconds at one stage but seemingly Lando had enough pace to manage it.

It’s ultimately a pretty decent result and the only way to have really improved it was in qualifying - I wonder if doing two push laps like McLaren would have been better? I guess we’ll never know.

They sound reasonably confident that the changes coming next week will help them so let’s see. It seems unlikely we’ll be entirely competitive - enough to win races on pure pace -without the new suspension but right now a step forward would be welcome. I still think it’s the right thing to work to get this car working properly before switching everything to 2026 - a. Because the season is very long and the whole championship can still change with 2/3 of races still to run but b. Moreover because they need to fully get on top of the platform in order to understand all future cars and not repeat the mistake.

[Hammerfist]

It was smart by Ferrari, Hamilton was never challenging VER, P5 was the best result for Lewis with the grid drop.

Why ? At what stage was that decided ? Hamiton was 'ahead' of the Lawson train in the first stint, right ? Then why did the team fall into this conclusion ? What was the pace of the guys between VER and HAM, and what did HAM do, when tehy pitted, did he speed up or not, to reduce the gap to VER ? I'm not able to recollect.

Quick notes from Multiviewer live timing.

TLDR Hamilton had no pace today. If he did, he and Charles could have worked for a win.

Lap 17
Hamilton released from Alonso (pit)
6.5 s gap to VER

Lap 19
Hamilton pit 1
6.7 s gap to VER

Hamilton pit out
25.2 s gap to VER
Ham 34.1 to lead
Ver 8.9 to lead

Lap 29
VER pit 1
3.5 s gap to VER on pit out. (Hamilton in mostly free air Lap 19-29)

lap 39
14.5 s gap to VER

Lap 49 (Hamilton in free air)
20.1 s gap to VER

Lap 57
ham pit 2
22.4 s to VER
pit out 43.6 s to VER

lap 78 - after VER pit
31 s gap to VER

The only thing I did not look at was getting past lapped cars but I think it is clear Hamilton did not have the pace of the top 4 today.

They rebuilt the rear of the car after FP3, maybe the balance was slightly off causing worse race pace or maybe the pit wall didn't give good enough instructions but the second one wouldn't account for the pace gap.

He lost 11 sec to verstappen from lap 29 to 39. Thats one sec per lap. I dont think he was pushing for whatever reason. I need to see his onboard during those laps. But why wouldn’t he try to stay close to Ver? If he stayed close he might have tried to undercut him and Max wouldn’t have tried to steal the race by waiting for a red flag. Weird.

[Seanspeed]

Our only chance of winning a race this season is probably gone.

Perhaps, if you mean purely on merit, but I think Leclerc was punching well above his weight here, too. Couldn't expect him or the car to do anything more.

Frustrating, but it's been difficult to even get on the podium this year.

[Space-heat]

Why ? At what stage was that decided ? Hamiton was 'ahead' of the Lawson train in the first stint, right ? Then why did the team fall into this conclusion ? What was the pace of the guys between VER and HAM, and what did HAM do, when tehy pitted, did he speed up or not, to reduce the gap to VER ? I'm not able to recollect.

Quick notes from Multiviewer live timing.

TLDR Hamilton had no pace today. If he did, he and Charles could have worked for a win.

Lap 17
Hamilton released from Alonso (pit)
6.5 s gap to VER

Lap 19
Hamilton pit 1
6.7 s gap to VER

Hamilton pit out
25.2 s gap to VER
Ham 34.1 to lead
Ver 8.9 to lead

Lap 29
VER pit 1
3.5 s gap to VER on pit out. (Hamilton in mostly free air Lap 19-29)

lap 39
14.5 s gap to VER

Lap 49 (Hamilton in free air)
20.1 s gap to VER

Lap 57
ham pit 2
22.4 s to VER
pit out 43.6 s to VER

lap 78 - after VER pit
31 s gap to VER

The only thing I did not look at was getting past lapped cars but I think it is clear Hamilton did not have the pace of the top 4 today.

They rebuilt the rear of the car after FP3, maybe the balance was slightly off causing worse race pace or maybe the pit wall didn't give good enough instructions but the second one wouldn't account for the pace gap.

This is correct - Hamilton just didn’t have the same pace in the race as the leaders and/or he wasn’t bothering (he seemed very dour after the race). If he’d been closer, perhaps they could have done something different but probably not. I think the key point was that Norris’ ~6 second gap before the second stop gave them the buffer to respond - Charles got it down to around 4 seconds at one stage but seemingly Lando had enough pace to manage it.

It’s ultimately a pretty decent result and the only way to have really improved it was in qualifying - I wonder if doing two push laps like McLaren would have been better? I guess we’ll never know. .

If lewis could have stayed within 20 seconds of the lead they could have put Norris under pressure with the threat of him pitting into Hamilton but would have been unlikely to work.

On the qualifying. Charles said it himself he didn’t get the banker lap he wanted. He caught VER in a bad place on his Q3 lap 1 and it cost him a better time. He was fuming and even turned on the radio into T10 to curse VER out. He said it meant he could risk fully on his second run.

From the onboards VER was off the line but might have distracted or dirty air maybe. Fine margins and all that.

[Space-heat]

Why ? At what stage was that decided ? Hamiton was 'ahead' of the Lawson train in the first stint, right ? Then why did the team fall into this conclusion ? What was the pace of the guys between VER and HAM, and what did HAM do, when tehy pitted, did he speed up or not, to reduce the gap to VER ? I'm not able to recollect.

Quick notes from Multiviewer live timing.

TLDR Hamilton had no pace today. If he did, he and Charles could have worked for a win.

Lap 17
Hamilton released from Alonso (pit)
6.5 s gap to VER

Lap 19
Hamilton pit 1
6.7 s gap to VER

Hamilton pit out
25.2 s gap to VER
Ham 34.1 to lead
Ver 8.9 to lead

Lap 29
VER pit 1
3.5 s gap to VER on pit out. (Hamilton in mostly free air Lap 19-29)

lap 39
14.5 s gap to VER

Lap 49 (Hamilton in free air)
20.1 s gap to VER

Lap 57
ham pit 2
22.4 s to VER
pit out 43.6 s to VER

lap 78 - after VER pit
31 s gap to VER

He lost 11 sec to verstappen from lap 29 to 39. Thats one sec per lap. I dont think he was pushing for whatever reason. I need to see his onboard during those laps. But why wouldn’t he try to stay close to Ver? If he stayed close he might have tried to undercut him and Max wouldn’t have tried to steal the race by waiting for a red flag. Weird.

Tyres were 11 laps older over that stint but that does seems like a lot per lap…

[ringo]

Hamilton pace was very strange. He was doing reasonably well then all of a sudden was nowhere even on fresh tyres.

I wonder what the significance of the 60 seconds question was at the end.

I think in stint 2 Ferrari held Hamilton out to delay Piastri pitting. I think Hamilton knew this and was annoyed his race was nowhere as a result. He clearly wanted to pit earlier complaining about his rear tyres. The 60 second question could be hinting at this.

It was smart by Ferrari, Hamilton was never challenging VER, P5 was the best result for Lewis with the grid drop.

Yes I suspect he was being used strategically, and they did not want to tell him to go after the others. So basically wanting to sacrifice his race, but not telling him that's what they are doing.

Her normally says he gave it everything or the car was not working if he really did not have the pace. But it seems he was demotivated by the pitwall and just did not bother as it would not have mattered going after vertsappen.

But there was a time where he came out behind Max, had he kept as close as possible, then there would have been opportunity to take advantage of any kind of crash or VSC.

Anyhow strange race for him, onto the next one.

[Seanspeed]

None of that explains why Lewis was so slow, though.