Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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morefirejules08
morefirejules08
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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westech wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Could anyone tell me what was happening with Hamilton's tail light flickering for half the race? Glitch or something more serious?
Perhaps it's him putting on the intermediate tyre engine map, so the engine provides less torque and is easier for him to manage rear wheelspin? :twisted:
beelsebob wrote:Ted said during the race that McLaren had said it was probably just lewis hitting the wrong button on the steering wheel at some point... Luckily it wasn't the pit lane speed limiter :lol:
Lol - I remember he did that in Suzuka 2009 which ultimately lost him P2 to Trulli.
Ray you are correct the team told him to put on the intermediate tyre engine map to provide less torque, that's how he managed the rear wheelspin (b) To add on that the flickering tail light on a sunny afternoon is not good it confuses who ever is behind you keep on briping as it does.
Do you have a source for this information? Is it even legal to use the intermediate map in the dry?

PhillipM
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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westech wrote: To add on that the flickering tail light on a sunny afternoon is not good it confuses who ever is behind you keep on briping as it does.
Sounds like a good idea to me.

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raymondu999
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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morefirejules08 wrote:Do you have a source for this information? Is it even legal to use the intermediate map in the dry?
It's legal. Last seen Brazil 2011 on Vettel (to nurse his broken gearbox.
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Owen.C93
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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I thought it would violate this rule.
5.5.4

The accelerator pedal shaping map in the ECU may only be linked to the type of the tyres
fitted to the car: one map for use with dry weather tyres and one map for use with intermediate or wet-weather tyres
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amc
amc
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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Correct Owen.

It was legal last year because the regulation wasn't there.
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Mission Control
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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As far as I understand it, there is one engine map for all conditions and a few pedal maps for wet and maybe tires, the rule says torque must be equal to throttle position, where as the pedal maps alter the pedal to throttle relationship. So no rules are broken, please correct me if I am wrong? I try to stay in the "closed loop" on these things. ( ECU joke, sorry )

amc
amc
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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I don't want to get hung up on this too much because it's all been discussed to great length here. The regulations define three maps. A map in this case is essentially a continuous line graph. The first is a torque demand map, which plots RPM (X axis) against torque demand (Y axis) for any given throttle position. The second is the pedal shaping map, which plots accelerator pedal travel (Z axis) against torque demand (Y axis) for any given engine speed. The third is a max throttle target map, which is the torque demand map when defined at 100% throttle.

Combine all of these things and you get a so called 'engine map': (The figures are arbitrary) Image
Here you can see the X axis for RPM going to the right, the Y axis going straight up, and the Z axis going away and left, forming a 3D surface which is the torque demand from the engine.

So, yes, the pedal shaping map does represent throttle position against torque, and teams can have two, one for wet tyres and one for dry tyres. If you look at Article 5.5 you will see how the regulations govern these maps in more detail. If Hamilton did change to the wet tyre map then the regulations were broken, but there are several other settings that will activate the rain light, most of which are more likely.

Please refrain from the electronics jokes in future though, they're at best cough shocking and really the perpetrators should be cough charged with a lack of ahem current humour.

Sigh.
"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool speaks because he has to say something."

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Jackles-UK
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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amc wrote:Please refrain from the electronics jokes in future though, they're at best cough shocking and really the perpetrators should be cough charged with a lack of ahem current humour.

Sigh.
This type of engine/throttle map situation was always likely to spark some differences of opinion though ...

Nando
Nando
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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Guys, did we understand fully what the lights on the back of the Mclaren did?

The tweet where someone asked them and they said it was flouro strip seems to me they either dodged the question or simply miss-understood it.

Anyway, a guy called Kennett Ylitalo thinks it might be Schlieren photography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlieren_photography

Seems like it could be that? Or Synthetic schlieren.
Would it not be like having your own miniature wind tunnel with you as you can see the airflow and how it moves on the fly in the real world?
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superdread
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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Nando wrote:Guys, did we understand fully what the lights on the back of the Mclaren did?

The tweet where someone asked them and they said it was flouro strip seems to me they either dodged the question or simply miss-understood it.

Anyway, a guy called Kennett Ylitalo thinks it might be Schlieren photography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlieren_photography

Seems like it could be that? Or Synthetic schlieren.
Would it not be like having your own miniature wind tunnel with you as you can see the airflow and how it moves on the fly in the real world?
Nope, that doesn't work.
First, you would have massive noise by environmental light (sun, reflections...).
Second, as a shadowgraph projects to 2D parallel to the flow, you lose information (the interesting stuff is 3D or at least perpendicular to the flow).
Third, the speeds should be too low for a shadow graph, the density gradients would be too flat (after all Schlieren was developed for supersonic visualisation).

Nando
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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Ok thanks for shooting it down.

But if it´s ride height sensors should they not be pointed straight down?
And why are they lights? Surely a small laser would be as effective?
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PhillipM
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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They're not forced to be lights - camera's will pick up frequencies outside the visible spectrum quite easily...

Nando
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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PhillipM wrote:They're not forced to be lights - camera's will pick up frequencies outside the visible spectrum quite easily...
So what do you think it is?
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westech
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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Nando wrote:Guys, did we understand fully what the lights on the back of the Mclaren did?

The tweet where someone asked them and they said it was flouro strip seems to me they either dodged the question or simply miss-understood it.

Anyway, a guy called Kennett Ylitalo thinks it might be Schlieren photography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlieren_photography

Seems like it could be that? Or Synthetic schlieren.
Would it not be like having your own miniature wind tunnel with you as you can see the airflow and how it moves on the fly in the real world?
The germany grand prix allan mcnish explained what those light are for trying to get the link, anyway they do use those light in testing mcnish explained.

beelsebob
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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westech wrote:
Nando wrote:Guys, did we understand fully what the lights on the back of the Mclaren did?

The tweet where someone asked them and they said it was flouro strip seems to me they either dodged the question or simply miss-understood it.

Anyway, a guy called Kennett Ylitalo thinks it might be Schlieren photography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlieren_photography

Seems like it could be that? Or Synthetic schlieren.
Would it not be like having your own miniature wind tunnel with you as you can see the airflow and how it moves on the fly in the real world?
The germany grand prix allan mcnish explained what those light are for trying to get the link, anyway they do use those light in testing mcnish explained.
Trying to get what link?