Honda F1 in trouble, and withdraw from F1

[Agerasia]

I hope this is the real deal.

[axle]

We'll know on Friday if they do a shake down...and then again on Monday when the Barca test kicks off.

Just read they are doing the shakedown at my local track, Snetterton in Norfolk...if ONLY I wasn't working!!

[shir0]

For shir0: Most interesting that, applies only to "manufacturers", why Cosworth could supply the entire field?

Cosworth fall under the spec-engine proposition - by the time they start with that, I assume the two-teams-supply rule will disappear anyway...

For Metar;
Yes I am aware that Cosworth could in theory become the F1 spec-engine, but as we have not seen that happen yet (or do you like so many others here know something I don't?), they would in the mean time be free to supply engines to whomever they want?

@xpensive: First of all, I don't even know if Cosworth cannot be considered as a "Major Car Manufacturer" as defined in the 2009 F1 Sporting Code. Isn't Cosworth a subsidiary of FORD, Volkswagen or another major automotive supplier (which in turn is under the umbrella of multiple major car manufacturers)? See the rule:

<snip> For the purposes of this Article 13.3, a major car manufacturer is a company whose shares are quoted on a recognised stock exchange or the subsidiary of such a company.

If (and it's a big "if" ) they can be excluded from this classification as defined under the current code, then the answer to your question is YES, they theoretically could supply engines to whomever wants to have their engine.

What Metar is saying is that this rule may be be modified or completely taken out if the FIA deems it needs to have a spec-engine for any of the upcoming F1 seasons. But for now, the rule applies and they must have valid grounds to exclude themselves from this rule before they can supply engines, theoretically, to the entire grid.

Of course, the FIA is the FIA and they have a history of making drastic (READ: Controversial) decisions concerning F1.

[modbaraban]

Isn't Cosworth a subsidiary of FORD, Volkswagen or another major automotive supplier

No.

[shir0]

Okay, Mod. I'll take your word for it.

But which "Cosworth" engine manufacturer are we talking about here? The one owned by CCWS owners or the one under the Mahle group?

[freedom_honda]

according to sources on RHF1: (im simply copying and pasting what they said over there, since i assume most of you don't go to that site.)

- The team will be racing in 2009
- the announcement will be made today in Japan
- Drivers are Button and Barrichello.
- The team will pay for Barrichello's expenses, and point bonuses at the end of the season.
- Button has signed a one-year deal with the team, to Button's advantage.
- "Most of the jobs will be kept" (this came from an employee that worked in the team whom were in the team meeting with the whole team on thursday night.)
- The colour of the car will be blue, and a bit of white and red.
- However the car will not have the sponsor's logo on the car next week at testing.
- The team will unveil the car's official livery on thursday before Friday practice at Melb.
- Mike (thats right im disappointed too as huge fan of the team and Button) will joining the team.
- The team will be called Brawn GP
- The car will be running on Merc Engine and KERS
- Nick will stay
- The team has based the chassis around not having a KERS system. So the team prob won't have a KERS equipped car until mid season.
- "As i've previously said, the new lead sponsor will be a big suprise, and is a major coop for the management, especially for a brand new team. A lot of people will be shocked. However, to clinch the deal, the first year they have been given a smashing deal to get their logos on the car whilst we are effectivly subsidised by Honda. Should they be happy with the exposure, there is the option to continue into year two at the full going rate."

[Moanlower]

Who knows, will the British tax payers be the lead sponsors? It would be a good investment in this time of crisis since it creates plenty of jobs.

[cba_]

http://www.brawngp.com hm...

[modbaraban]

- Mike (thats right im disappointed too as huge fan of the team and Button) will joining the team.

What?

[freedom_honda]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=37169

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=37168

[freedom_honda]

- Mike (thats right im disappointed too as huge fan of the team and Button) will joining the team.

What?

that was my first reaction as well when i first read it. I certainly hope thats not true. I mean just look at Toyota and FI in the last few years, they have been going nowhere.

[modbaraban]

I though he was already designing a shed for USGPE base Seriousy, there were reports about him selling his house and looking for job in the US.

[xpensive]

Appointing Mike Gascoyne, if is's true, could actually make me eat that humble balaclava in good spirits. He is to my understanding an excellent engineer with a liberating my-way-or-the-highway personality.
Besides, this is perhaps what I have suggested earlier, Ross Brawn is not himself an engineer per definition, he started out in F1 as a machine-operator with Williams and has credibly worked himself up together with Rory Byrne, who designed the cars.

But a non-paying sponsor for 2009, don't like the sound of that really?

[Moanlower]

A major car manufacturer may not
directly or indirectly supply engines for more than two teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA. For the purposes of this Article 13.3, a major car manufacturer is a company whose shares are quoted on a recognised stock exchange or the subsidiary of such a company.

The rules says "...may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than two teams of two cars each...". The same rule doesn't say "for more than two customer teams...". Also, if you think about it, a major car manufacturer's own works team (like Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro) is still a team of two cars therefore it counts as one of the two teams allowed by the FIA to be supplied by them.

So consent for a major car manufacturer to supply a third team of two cars can only be given by the FIA and not the customer team. In the case of McLaren/FIF1/Honda(Brawn)...it may be just that there is a clause in the FIF1/Mercedes engine supply contract that says Mercedes has to seek FIF1's permission (subsequent to the FIA's) to supply another (third) team with the same formula 1 engine.

If Mercedes and Ferrari already had 2 engine costumers, why didn't Brawn opted for a Ferrari engine

[timbo]

If Mercedes and Ferrari already had 2 engine costumers, why didn't Brawn opted for a Ferrari engine

Maybe there were no credible financial guaranties for Ferrari to support them, apparently they had some problem with Prost team back then. Another reason (and I think this one is more probable) is that RB wanted complete powertrain solution, just like FI wanted. For whatever reason Ferrari only supply engines.