2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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flmkane
flmkane
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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venkyhere wrote:
09 Jun 2025, 11:47
ringo wrote:
05 Jun 2025, 18:18
The problem is when the rear is not planted. The younger drivers do not need to drive as much on feeling or feedback. They can push and throw the car more with less hesitation because theyre likely not waiting for a feedback.
Sorry to say, I haven't read anything crappier than this about 'driving' rwd cars with no tc/abs ; in my entire life.
I think ringo worded that wrong. But he's not incorrect.

A lot of younger drivers tend to be better at predicting car behavior while on the limit. They begin compensating for handling shortcomings before the problems can cost too much laptime. Hamilton USED to be good at this, Verstappen is very good at this currently.

Historically, Nigel Mansell and Alan Prost were very good at trusting the Williams engineers and throwing around their active suspension FW14 and FW15 cars. That set them apart from Patrese and Hill, who were thrown off by the lack of feedback and the unintuitive behavior of those cars.

On the opposite side, you have guys like Raikkonen who need a specific set up and response to get good laptimes.In 2012, Raikkonen never got on top of steering feedback issues even though the Lotus was a race winner.

Sevach
Sevach
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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DJ Downforce wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 11:14
So Nugnes was wrong about Imola updates and now wrong about Canada updates. His pathetic articles should be boycotted.

Well strap in for a weekend of pain then
Focus on Le Mans, better chances there.

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deadhead
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Joined: 08 Apr 2022, 20:24

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sevach wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 14:18
DJ Downforce wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 11:14
So Nugnes was wrong about Imola updates and now wrong about Canada updates. His pathetic articles should be boycotted.

Well strap in for a weekend of pain then
Focus on Le Mans, better chances there.
Toyota should walk that, no? The “balance of performance” table I was looking at gives them a better chance than Ferrari

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atanatizante
125
Joined: 10 Mar 2011, 15:33

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
05 Jun 2025, 20:55
El_KaPpa wrote:
05 Jun 2025, 18:50
ringo wrote:
05 Jun 2025, 18:18


Fred himself said there was something wrong.
He wont say what it is. They made changes to relieve something but probably didnt ask how much to change.
I think they assume Lewis doesn't know the car so they know how much clicks to put in anyway so why ask. That didn't work out.
The other issue is possibly floor damage.

I think generally Lewis is outdated in terms of driving technique. I say that as a fan.
The same goes for Alonso and Hulk.
Lewis will do well once the car's rear is planted and be unbeatable. The problem is when the rear is not planted. The younger drivers do not need to drive as much on feeling or feedback. They can push and throw the car more with less hesitation because theyre likely not waiting for a feedback. That's my observation. The stiffer platform and the low profile tyre just requires a technique that Hamilton does not possess by instinct. When you are not driving by instinct you are going to lose some milliseconds per corner.

In the grand scheme Lewis' problem is noticable but very minor given the circumstances.
His points gap to Charles is norrowest teammate gap on the grid second only to Oscar and Lando; both in the same car for over 2 years. I have not checked it, but i suspect Carlos was not this close on points at race 9 either. Even worse when he just joined Ferrari.
Charles was not this close to Vettel at race 9 when he just joined etc.
So Lewis is not doing bad. Doing a decent job. But there is a lot of noise, and he is judged unfairly because of the attention he brings, the media pundits who are envious, and generally fans waiting decades for some kind of downfall or unravelling.
He wont improve in this generation's car. Only if it drives at the limit where the feeling does not fluctuate as much so he doesnt have guess what's going to happen.
I don't know why his 2023 was so good. Or if it was that George was having a bad year.
It’s always curious how the so-called balanced takes start with “I’m a fan, but...” and then go on to describe the driver as outdated, instinctively inferior and basically past it. Sounds less like fandom and more like an excuse to downgrade a 7-time world champion under the cover of objectivity.

If Lewis is truly struggling, it’s in a car not designed around him, with limited input so far and still the gap to Leclerc is minimal. That says more about Hamilton’s level than any theory about instinct or generational driving styles.
...

Even in the practice sessions, he doesn't complete as many competitive laps. He spends a lot of time twiddling with the car. Maybe he does a sector here or there, then slows and adjusts, never fully on it from out of the gate. And yes, that may be down to him not participating in years of development, but it is what I see objectively.

At 4:40 minutes in this video, James Vowles is talking about this matter and said he was amazed about the fact that HAM is an optimizer and didn't need too many laps to figure out the car setup for that particular race track ...


"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

Sevach
Sevach
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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deadhead wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 15:04

Toyota should walk that, no? The “balance of performance” table I was looking at gives them a better chance than Ferrari
Toyota drivers are saying Ferrari is still the quickest, but we'll see.

Still a better shot than F1 in Canada i think.

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deadhead
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Joined: 08 Apr 2022, 20:24

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sevach wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 16:18
deadhead wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 15:04

Toyota should walk that, no? The “balance of performance” table I was looking at gives them a better chance than Ferrari
Toyota drivers are saying Ferrari is still the quickest, but we'll see.

Still a better shot than F1 in Canada i think.
Well yes I’d put Ferrari’s chances at winning the Canadian GP at close to zero.

Wouldn’t expect Toyota’s drivers to say that they are faster tho so it probably doesn’t mean much

Sevach
Sevach
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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deadhead wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 16:21


Well yes I’d put Ferrari’s chances at winning the Canadian GP at close to zero.

Wouldn’t expect Toyota’s drivers to say that they are faster tho so it probably doesn’t mean much
Agreed on both counts.

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ScuderiaLeo
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Location: Mexico

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I can't remember the last time Ferrari had a good weekend all-around in Canada...

This is one of the races I always dread. Nothing ever seems to go right. :?

Luscion
Luscion
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Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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ScuderiaLeo wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 16:45
I can't remember the last time Ferrari had a good weekend all-around in Canada...

This is one of the races I always dread. Nothing ever seems to go right. :?
P1 for Vettel in 2018, Vettel finished P1 but got the penalty dropping him to P2 in 2019, 2020 and 2021 cancelled due to convid, Sainz finished P2 in 2022, 1sec away from Verstappen, 2023 they got 4th and 5th. 2024 was the only really bad year with Ferrari putting Charles on hards when everyone else went to inters, Sainz losing it and running into Albon and them retiring both Ferraris, it really hasnt been bad for Ferrari in Canada over the years

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ringo
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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venkyhere wrote:
09 Jun 2025, 11:47
ringo wrote:
05 Jun 2025, 18:18
The problem is when the rear is not planted. The younger drivers do not need to drive as much on feeling or feedback. They can push and throw the car more with less hesitation because theyre likely not waiting for a feedback.
Sorry to say, I haven't read anything crappier than this about 'driving' rwd cars with no tc/abs ; in my entire life.
Sometimes you should think before you type. If you think the F1 drivers feel everything before they react then you have a lot to learn. Rear wheel drive doesnt matter. An F1 car is not a sports car. It's an aerodynamic car firstly. The drivers are likely driving on faith in the machine 50% of the time. They are not feeling and reacting to everything. A perfect example is under braking. This is why so many time drivers make mistakes and fall of the track when the tyres are not up to temperature or the track is a little damp. They had faith in grip that they cannot feel until it's too late. They know and believe they should be able to brake at 100m or go through a corner at 150kph. But once the conditions change especially the tyres.. there's only so much you can feel and react to.
The younger drivers depend less on feeling and more on what the simulations say should be possible.
See Antonelli free practice debut last year at Monza. Blind faith in performance expectation is what happened.
For Sure!!

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I'm still of the view, as in race thread, that this circuit's attributes isn't a bad fit with Ferrari’s currently running car.

Its more a philosophy of setting up the car they've got, notable fault included, rather than being so idealistic in setting for a car they haven't got. That's in terms of technical performance.

There's significant void between these two method, if carried out well to produce the best performance currently available as opposed to "habitually" setting to previous data targets then to be vocal about what this chassis won't do for them.

Acceptance and careful consideration for pre existing problems has been successful in its advantages for Monaco and Barcelona.

r85
r85
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Joined: 26 Feb 2023, 17:20
Location: Munich, DE

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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ScuderiaLeo wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 16:45
I can't remember the last time Ferrari had a good weekend all-around in Canada...

This is one of the races I always dread. Nothing ever seems to go right. :?
They were pretty quick in 2022, I reckon Leclerc could have won without the grid penalty. 2023 was bad because of their poor qualifying but they were rapid in the race, so it was really down to qualifying. 2024 as well but that was all round just a poor weekend. I can see Leclerc putting the car on the podium on Sunday if qualifying goes well. He's reaching 2nd half 2023 - 2024 level of consistency with the car at the moment.

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DJ Downforce
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Joined: 10 Jan 2025, 12:48

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/12-06 ... rari.shtml

According to this article if Vasseur doesn't improve results by Silverstone he's gone. What a joke, if they fire him it proves that they'll never win another championship ever again

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
12 Jun 2025, 04:05

Anyhow I don't know what to expect for Canada. Agreed that the team has reasonable results on this circuit. But... they will be in the shadow of McLaren, Redbull and Mercedes here. In that past Ferrari was at least top 3. Now they struggle to beat merc to p3. Only when its hot theyre about equal.
Canada is going to be cool, so Mercedes will be strong.
This is a track where the corners are somewhat similar in speed and profile and curb riding helps...
Maybe Ferrari will be good.

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deadhead
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Joined: 08 Apr 2022, 20:24

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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DJ Downforce wrote:
12 Jun 2025, 10:43
https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/12-06 ... rari.shtml

According to this article if Vasseur doesn't improve results by Silverstone he's gone. What a joke, if they fire him it proves that they'll never win another championship ever again
His body language during interviews and more importantly what he’s been saying clearly suggest some tension but I doubt they will get rid of him before we see what next year brings