2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[Edax]

We know he’s been summoned for breach of parc ferme rules don’t we. And we know that he’s bang to rights because we all saw it. We also know that the very part that Hamilton is under investigation for was the very part that max was filmed touching.

Did he touch? That's hard to prove with that low resolution video.

I don’t think touching even matters. Otherwise it would open the door to all kinds of contactless inspection methods (flir, xrf, eddy current etc) . Measuring with your hand could equally be seen as an inspection with a measurement device, which breaches parc ferme rules. Although drivers do it more often I think Merc has a point.

But I cannot see a bearing on the Merc punishment. The basis is the failed inspection, there is no obligation for the FIA to show why it did not pass, just that the measurement is accurate. The burden of proof on mercedes to show that their wing was legal and the reason it failed the test was not in their control. Casting doubt is not enough. They have to show that the action of ves changed the wing. I think that is very hard to prove.

The only play they can make is to accuse the organisation. I don’t know if the cars actually change ownership, But allowing ves to approach the cars, could be played as a general lack of oversight, meaning anything could have happened and they can perhaps ask for a record of everything that happened to the car after Q.

Anyway, i am not a lawyer, but my experience with arbitrage cases as a technical expert, is that the lawyers will throw everything at each other, until everyone involved that is not a lawyer is so fed up with it, that some sort of settlement is agreed.

No doubt some people will file huge declarations in the coming days.

[search]

I’m afraid law does not work like this.

All that’s needed is an element of doubt.

I'm not sure. Even if the FIA comes to the conclusion that Verstappen touching the rear wing invalidates the DRS check (which I think is unlikely, but anyway), Hamilton would still have an illegal rear wing, no matter what.

So what's next then? It needs to be changed for new one, under parc fermé. And would that automatically be a "different specification" then, leading to a pit lane start in the sprint race?!

[Ryar]

As I’ve stated before, I think it’s a moot point as to whether Max could have damaged it.

He’s on camera breaking the sporting rules and touching the very part in question.

It is not just Hamiltons car he shouldnt touch, it is as per roules, his too.

Secod part is tricky. The driver, operates the car, opens the headrest and puts it back to go in and out of it in parc ferme. Difficult to describe what part of his own car, a driver is allowed to "touch" in parc ferme.

[Ryar]

They have to show that the action of ves changed the wing. I think that is very hard to prove.

This part is easy. They can take Bottas' rear wing, if that is legal still, replicate the action of Verstappen (no one can exactly say if he did touch, for the sake of argument let's assume) on that rear wing and prove that, it damaged exactly the way it damaged Lewis' rear wing. Someone claimed, there are sensors on the car to measure the weight put on it, so that would be a good scientific way to find the stress.

[taperoo2k]

We know he’s been summoned for breach of parc ferme rules don’t we. And we know that he’s bang to rights because we all saw it. We also know that the very part that Hamilton is under investigation for was the very part that max was filmed touching.

Did he touch? That's hard to prove with that low resolution video.

Touchgate.

Mercedes supporters seem to be clutching at straws with the idea there would be no penalty for replacing the rear wing on #44 car and that Verstappen would be penalised instead.

You could see both drivers sent to the back of the grid or at the extreme end of the scale - excluded from the rest of the race weekend.
The FIA do not mess around when it comes to clear technical breaches and breaches of Parc Fermé. The area the cars are parked in will have been swarming with FIA scrutineers, observers and probably FIA cameras as well.

What's clear is Max has been utterly stupid and should have never touched Lewis's car. Especially with a title fight this close. The FIA will be a lot more strict in these circumstances. If Max gets demoted to the back of the grid or excluded from the rest of the event ? That'll be his own fault. If Lewis faces similar ? I have some sympathy as the team will be at fault for breaching the regulations.

[djones]

If I’ve learnt anything this year it’s that rules and regulations are changed to promote better TV and encourage a larger audience.

With that in mind they are probably thinking of ways to send them both to the back.

[bigblue]

Wow, proper F1 season now !

1. Merc fail DRS slot-gap test.
2. Max touches (?) Merc rear-wing.
3. Red Bull rear-wing element flaps about at a certain corner.
4. Red Bull think Merc rear-wing is flexing excessively (separate issue from DRS slot-gap).

Also seen, a headline before all this : "Hamilton buoyed by big gap"

[pantherxxx]

Regardless of Parc Fermé rules and what Max did, it doesn't change the fact that the Mercedes was illegal. It's easy to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Max was unable to cause this anomaly, therefore it should be a Mercedes DSQ. No sane engineer with a degree would claim that such thing is even remotely possible in such a short time. Max is not a strong man.

"Carbon fiber is a very strong material, but like any material it does some things better than others. Carbon fiber is very strong when stretched or bent, but weak when compressed or exposed to high shock (e.g. a carbon fiber bar is extremely difficult to bend, but will crack easily if hit with a hammer)."

[Ryar]

If I’ve learnt anything this year it’s that rules and regulations are changed to promote better TV and encourage a larger audience.

With that in mind they are probably thinking of ways to send them both to the back.

They should have hired Vince McMahon.

[djones]

Regardless of Parc Fermé rules and what Max did, it doesn't change the fact that the Mercedes was illegal. It's easy to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Max was unable to cause this anomaly, therefore it should be a Mercedes DSQ. No sane engineer with a degree would claim that such thing is even remotely possible in such a short time. Max is not a strong man.

"Carbon fiber is a very strong material, but like any material it does some things better than others. Carbon fiber is very strong when stretched or bent, but weak when compressed or exposed to high shock (e.g. a carbon fiber bar is extremely difficult to bend, but will crack easily if hit with a hammer)."

Although what your saying is correct, it’s not that simple in law.

Murder cases have been thrown out for less on technicalities.

[NathanOlder]

Wow, proper F1 season now !

1. Merc fail DRS slot-gap test.
2. Max touches (?) Merc rear-wing.
3. Red Bull rear-wing element flaps about at a certain corner.
4. Red Bull think Merc rear-wing is flexing excessively (separate issue from DRS slot-gap).

Also seen, a headline before all this : "Hamilton buoyed by big gap"

that made me chuckle

[kistigun]

Not sure this video is shared before; the measurement of the DRS



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[Nicktec]

That's nice to see. Gambled, and lost

[JordanMugen]

"Carbon fiber is a very strong material, but like any material it does some things better than others. Carbon fiber is very strong when stretched or bent, but weak when compressed or exposed to high shock (e.g. a carbon fiber bar is extremely difficult to bend, but will crack easily if hit with a hammer)."

The DRS actuator and wing open "stop" is some intricate mechanism made of (probably) aluminium and springs etc though, it's probably not made of carbon fibre. Nor the mechanism that holds the flap in it's angle of attack either (indeed the 5-10mm separator between the main wing elements and end plates is a machined aluminium cascade of 4-5 elements on most cars, it's not carbon fibre).

[taperoo2k]

Regardless of Parc Fermé rules and what Max did, it doesn't change the fact that the Mercedes was illegal. It's easy to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Max was unable to cause this anomaly, therefore it should be a Mercedes DSQ. No sane engineer with a degree would claim that such thing is even remotely possible in such a short time. Max is not a strong man.

"Carbon fiber is a very strong material, but like any material it does some things better than others. Carbon fiber is very strong when stretched or bent, but weak when compressed or exposed to high shock (e.g. a carbon fiber bar is extremely difficult to bend, but will crack easily if hit with a hammer)."

Max touching the rear wing is enough to muddy the waters for Mercedes to argue Max caused damage that made the wing fail inspection (Red Bull would do the same if they were in Mercedes shoes and Lewis had touched Max's car). The rear wings are sensitive parts, designed to take specific aerodynamic loads. Not somebody inexpertly poking around a rear wing that might dislodge something to misalign the wing enough to cause it to fail an FIA inspection. As I expect the rear wing will be right on the limit of the 85mm rule.

If this were an open and shut case, it would have been dealt with yesterday and Lewis would either have found himself banned from the race or at the back of the grid. Either Max will get a reprimand and points on his licence or some kind of penalty for touching Lewis's car. If he has damaged the Wing that caused it to fail the FIA inspection ? Then he'll be in a lot more trouble with the FIA. Not saying he has, it's just something to keep in mind. We don't have all the facts and I find it tiresome when people jump on the Anti Max or Anti Lewis bandwagons at the drop of a hat.