2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[MV8]

The fact that the fia haven’t disqualified Hamilton in what is an open and shut (ho ho) case, and max has been summoned tells you that the fia aren’t clear cut on this

Again ridiculous fictional comment. FIA has already declared the DRS was illegal & Mercedes have to change it. They will decide the action after letting Mercedes give their view & will go through past precedents as well.

Max touching or not or being summoned it also a separate issue which is being checked to see if this has any relation to this before FIA gives their verdict. FIA has already ruled that the DRS is illegal & has to be changed pre-race ! If they decide, Max touched it enough or tampered with it enough, he will get a small penalty or else reprimand - Mercedes will have their own verdict for their illegal Rear wing.

The bigger point is why not Bottas? Did Mercedes give only Hamilton a new Rear Wing which gave him a 1 or 2 tenths above Bottas? Why is there no talk about Bottas' Rear Wing ?

Because probably the fact of a "illegal rear wing" was by accident lol

[bonjon1979]

The fact that the fia haven’t disqualified Hamilton in what is an open and shut (ho ho) case, and max has been summoned tells you that the fia aren’t clear cut on this

Again ridiculous fictional comment. FIA has already declared the DRS was illegal & Mercedes have to change it. They will decide the action after letting Mercedes give their view & will go through past precedents as well.

Max touching or not or being summoned it also a separate issue which is being checked to see if this has any relation to this before FIA gives their verdict. FIA has already ruled that the DRS is illegal & has to be changed pre-race ! If they decide, Max touched it enough or tampered with it enough, he will get a small penalty or else reprimand - Mercedes will have their own verdict for their illegal Rear wing.

The bigger point is why not Bottas? Did Mercedes give only Hamilton a new Rear Wing which gave him a 1 or 2 tenths above Bottas? Why is there no talk about Bottas' Rear Wing ?

Not true. He was referred to the stewards. The hearing was adjourned until today with no outcome. One might suspect that since verstappens summons came soon after this is the reason

[bonjon1979]

No talk of bottas rear wing because max didn’t fiddle with it thereby making it illegal

[Starkblood80]

Max went near the Rear Wing after the qualifying was completed. During Qualy, the FIA clearly saw & confirmed that the DRS was illegal & went beyond the maximum allowable limit. Max didn't went anywhere near Mercedes car before qualy & couldn't have done anything to create the Illegal Rear wing of Mercedes.

This is a open & shut case for Mercedes. The car is illegal & has to go to the pit-lane or back of the grid.

Max issue is different. None of the video shows clearly that he even touched it. It has to be proved that he touched & he tampered with or inspected physically by touching. And then there is the issue is to what extent & should he get some minor penalty (2-3 slots etc - Was his tampering or inspecting grave enough or should he get a warning) - I don't think he gets any penalty by that video.

Lewis' case is open & shut. FIA has all the data & has already ruled the car was illegal in qualy & this way before Max was anywhere near. The question is will Mercedes be hit with something worse than a pit-lane start for Lewis ?

The FIA confirmed “during” qualifying that Hamilton’s DRS was illegal? Sorry but you’ll need to post some evidence to support that statement otherwise it’s just speculation in an attempt to defend Max’s actions.

Available everywhere. Read everything first. Otherwise don't comment on this thread until you are aware of everything. Don't create fictional stuff about Max reprimanded & Mercedes getting a pass.

Honestly some of the Hamilton fans are quite toxic & obnoxiously biased !

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/hamil ... g/6775002/

No mention of “during” qualifying only that it was checked after. Your turn now.
Also where did I mention anything about max getting a reprimand or Mercedes getting a free pass? Asking you to evidence your claim is now considered being toxic and obnoxiously biased but you can accuse me of writing things which I did not?
Seems legit

[basti313]

We know he’s been summoned for breach of parc ferme rules don’t we. And we know that he’s bang to rights because we all saw it. We also know that the very part that Hamilton is under investigation for was the very part that max was filmed touching.

Did he touch? That's hard to prove with that low resolution video.

Touchgate.

Mercedes supporters seem to be clutching at straws with the idea there would be no penalty for replacing the rear wing on #44 car and that Verstappen would be penalised instead.

Stinky finger gate.

No this is the rule Nr. 1, #44 car is never at fault. This is why it is not the wet dream of the supporters, but clear and realistic option that Max gets the penalty.
I will prepare a towel for my screen for the coffee spill when I explode laughing once this is announced.

[jumpingfish]

[SchuMassa]

Hilarious that the FIA stewards can touch, inspect and move the wing, no?

How is it possible that they can do this if it can alter the car before it's tested?

Whole thing is a bag of dicks and if the FIA allow Mercedes to get away with this "reasonable doubt" angle, the sport will be thrown in the bin.

Max did absolutey nothing that could have made that car fail a test and anyone that see's the closer video can see this as well.

Doesn’t matter, as everyone calling for Hamilton’s dsq. Rules are rules.

Why? I think the situation is clear on video. Max will be DSQ for manipulating the wing. At worst they will find some 5 or 10sec for Ham.

Yes, the situation is clear as day.
Hamilton's wing failed the tests, therefore he should be DQ'd.
Stop daydreaming.

[f1316]

“Renault F1 Team acknowledges the decision from the FIA Stewards to disqualify Daniel Ricciardo from the qualifying session of the Singapore Grand Prix after he benefitted from an advantage measured at one-microsecond due to a kerb hit that caused his MGU-K to overrev on his slowest lap of Q1. The decision will therefore not be appealed.”

So Ricciardo was disqualified in 2019 for 0.000001s advantage?

Correct. Legality decisions about weights, measures etc are clear cut.

https://i.imgur.com/Nbr6jNp.png

What are you showing here? I can’t make it out.

I’m sure there’s been 10 pages of blah blah depending on which driver everyone supports but I’d love to hear some of the technical insight for some of the very knowledgeable folks on this forum. Any sense of how this (the DRS opening too much) can happen? I can’t remember another instance of this since DRS came in for 2011 - other than it being stuck open (Alonso in Bahrain 2012) - so it seems quite unusual.

[Starkblood80]

Did he touch? That's hard to prove with that low resolution video.

Touchgate.

Mercedes supporters seem to be clutching at straws with the idea there would be no penalty for replacing the rear wing on #44 car and that Verstappen would be penalised instead.

Stinky finger gate.

No this is the rule Nr. 1, #44 car is never at fault. This is why it is not the wet dream of the supporters, but clear and realistic option that Max gets the penalty.
I will prepare a towel for my screen for the coffee spill when I explode laughing once this is announced.

Do you genuinely believe if this had been the other way round RB fans wouldn’t be saying the same thing?

[djones]

If they deal with this like a court case then Hamilton is ok and Max gets a penalty.

Right or wrong, it really is that simple.

Unless Max touched the car after the FIA measured the gap, but I don’t think it went in that order.

[jjn9128]

If they deal with this like a court case then Hamilton is ok and Max gets a penalty.

Right or wrong, it really is that simple.

Unless Max touched the car after the FIA measured the gap, but I don’t think it went in that order.

errr no. Clear as day is the DRS slot was too big. Ham will have his times removed from sprint qualifying that's unavoidable. However Verstappen did breach the sporting code, so I expect a 3 place sprint grid penalty or a fine. Basically to stop anyone doing it again. Kinda ruins some of the tension in the title fight, also as I expect Hamilton to get up to 8th-12th in the sprint. Which would be 13th-17th on the grid - they may chose to sit it out, save the engine mileage and start from the pits tomorrow to keep him out of the midfield into T1/2.

[djones]

If they deal with this like a court case then Hamilton is ok and Max gets a penalty.

Right or wrong, it really is that simple.

Unless Max touched the car after the FIA measured the gap, but I don’t think it went in that order.

errr no. Clear as day is the DRS slot was too big. Ham will have his times removed from sprint qualifying that's unavoidable. However Verstappen did breach the sporting code, so I expect a 3 place sprint grid penalty or a fine. Basically to stop anyone doing it again. Kinda ruins some of the tension in the title fight, also as I expect Hamilton to get up to 8th-12th in the sprint. Which would be 13th-17th on the grid - they may chose to sit it out, save the engine mileage and start from the pits tomorrow to keep him out of the midfield into T1/2.

I’m afraid law does not work like this.

All that’s needed is an element of doubt.

If Max touched the exact part that failed the test (and before the test) then it’s thrown out on a technicality.

However, Max breaking the rules is night and day so a penalty.

[Ryar]

If they deal with this like a court case then Hamilton is ok and Max gets a penalty.

Right or wrong, it really is that simple.

Unless Max touched the car after the FIA measured the gap, but I don’t think it went in that order.

errr no. Clear as day is the DRS slot was too big. Ham will have his times removed from sprint qualifying that's unavoidable. However Verstappen did breach the sporting code, so I expect a 3 place sprint grid penalty or a fine. Basically to stop anyone doing it again. Kinda ruins some of the tension in the title fight, also as I expect Hamilton to get up to 8th-12th in the sprint. Which would be 13th-17th on the grid - they may chose to sit it out, save the engine mileage and start from the pits tomorrow to keep him out of the midfield into T1/2.

If it is proven that Max touched Car#44, then your post is good summar of a reasonable outcome. That's IF.

[DChemTech]

If they deal with this like a court case then Hamilton is ok and Max gets a penalty.

Right or wrong, it really is that simple.

Unless Max touched the car after the FIA measured the gap, but I don’t think it went in that order.

errr no. Clear as day is the DRS slot was too big. Ham will have his times removed from sprint qualifying that's unavoidable. However Verstappen did breach the sporting code, so I expect a 3 place sprint grid penalty or a fine. Basically to stop anyone doing it again. Kinda ruins some of the tension in the title fight, also as I expect Hamilton to get up to 8th-12th in the sprint. Which would be 13th-17th on the grid - they may chose to sit it out, save the engine mileage and start from the pits tomorrow to keep him out of the midfield into T1/2.

I’m afraid law does not work like this.

All that’s needed is an element of doubt.

If Max touched the exact part that failed the test (and before the test) then it’s thrown out on a technicality.

However, Max breaking the rules is night and day so a penalty.

Yeah but we are not in a formal court here. So they can consider whether Max brushing the wing would actually be a possible cause of any observed technical infringement, and I personally do not see any mechanism by which it could - if such a minor touch (if any) would displace the wing, the thing should be blown off on the track under any substantial load.

[cirrusflyer]

As I’ve stated before, I think it’s a moot point as to whether Max could have damaged it.

He’s on camera breaking the sporting rules and touching the very part in question.

It is not just Hamiltons car he shouldnt touch, it is as per roules, his too.