2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
Magistos
0
Joined: 19 Apr 2024, 17:35
Location: United States

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

See - I took the exact opposite meaning from that quote - that he is saying the team and engineering have to bring more driveability to the car. That he's gotten as far as he can with his abilities and setup, and the rest is up to the team researching and the engineering team fabricating and fitting something, or realizing something that can help in his setup.

Matt-A
Matt-A
0
Joined: 15 Nov 2022, 12:47

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

In my perspective that comment relates specifically to the simulator. The article suggests that whatever he will try in Canada he will only test on the car and not beforehand in the simulator:
"“The simulator itself, in my perspective, is more towards the team, to something that we want to try on the track,” he explained."
Suggests to me that any sim time is reserved for Max or the car concept that Max wants.

User avatar
ispano6
162
Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 23:56
Location: my playseat

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

He just means that the simulator isn't truly representative of the actual car on track so it's more for the engineers and team to set up the car based on the known settings and parameters of the chassis from a theoretical perspective. Yuki is saying he wants the team to recognize what settings or characteristics in previous track outings showed him extracting the most out of the car. They've had days when they've moved away from a good set up and vice-versa. If he hasn't already, it may require Max to shed some light or provide some pointers to Yuki, or that Yuki needs to study footage and data of the fundamental differences between his and Max's driving, particularly driving line, braking points, and steering inputs.

Yuki still isn't one with the car, he can't predict what it'll do if he pushes it. He drives a clean line and it's slow. He's wary of getting close to the limit because the car will just step out if he overdrives it. The tyres getting chewed up could mean that the set up is too stiff and needs more compliance like the Mclaren cars, especially for medium and low speed corners. Still, the complaint has been low-grip from both drivers. It's like ice-skating, except that Max is like a pro-figure/speed skater and Yuki is a hockey player.

Marko was quoted as saying there won't be any major developments for the rest of the year and that there will only be small tweaks. It's surprising that Red Bull have not brought a V shaped rear wing that many teams down the grid have, perhaps this is an area they still can develop.

User avatar
hollus
Moderator
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

I have noticed that Tsunoda is almost exactly 6 tenths off Verstappen in most sessions. No change during the weekend, no matter the circuit length. Most sessions, not all, I guess.
Unfortunately for him,
a) the gap is not shrinking,
b) 6 tenths means a lot of positions from where Verstappen is now. In 2023 this would have meant consistent podiums
TANSTAAFL

User avatar
ringo
240
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

ispano6 wrote:
10 Jun 2025, 21:50
it may require Max to shed some light or provide some pointers to Yuki, or that Yuki needs to study footage and data of the fundamental differences between his and Max's driving, particularly driving line, braking points, and steering inputs.
This. Max is basically a racing nerd or genius. It's part of his competitive advantage and I think he simply will not share one ounce of guidance to any teammate. Maybe when he is older and that a different stage of his career. But a lot of the pace difference is in the team's knowledge and Max's experience and how the two meet in the middle. It's not purely down to talent.
I don't do sim racing, video games (anymore) or real life racing, but imagine setting up a car for a circuit and you don't even know the first place to start in terms of setup and balance etc. Max seems to be one of those game nerds that can tweak everything perfectly and the most complex and expert level. He is doing that in the real F-1 car too, and it may well be his intellectual property that Red Bull respectfully doesn't share.
They may need to share a little bit with Yuki and whoever partners Max next year. It's going to annoy Max, but it's a team effort.
This is premised on my assumptions though. It may not even be a thing, but it's based on Max's passion for sim racing. All of those hours must amount to some level of expertise at car setup.
For Sure!!

Espresso
Espresso
7
Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

In the paddock Max is a bit the ‚Mama Bear‘ watching over the young ones. Helping them out. Just as his own race team. He likes to help when he has time.

Yuki has full access to Max his data during a race weekend has always been open about that.
But understand Max is focusing on his performance in a race weekend…and not on tutoring.

User avatar
langedweil
0
Joined: 23 Mar 2018, 20:51
Location: Caribbean

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 00:46
It's part of his competitive advantage and I think he simply will not share one ounce of guidance to any teammate.
And another one ..
I tend to start seeing a pattern; it's kinda like confusing opinions with real life matters.

Anyway, to your point: au contraire ..
Like Espresso and the whole world states: everything is being shared, but sharing apparently ain't enough to improve things with this dog of a car.
HuggaWugga !

Watto
Watto
5
Joined: 10 Mar 2022, 15:12

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 00:46
ispano6 wrote:
10 Jun 2025, 21:50
it may require Max to shed some light or provide some pointers to Yuki, or that Yuki needs to study footage and data of the fundamental differences between his and Max's driving, particularly driving line, braking points, and steering inputs.
This. Max is basically a racing nerd or genius. It's part of his competitive advantage and I think he simply will not share one ounce of guidance to any teammate. Maybe when he is older and that a different stage of his career. But a lot of the pace difference is in the team's knowledge and Max's experience and how the two meet in the middle. It's not purely down to talent.
I don't do sim racing, video games (anymore) or real life racing, but imagine setting up a car for a circuit and you don't even know the first place to start in terms of setup and balance etc. Max seems to be one of those game nerds that can tweak everything perfectly and the most complex and expert level. He is doing that in the real F-1 car too, and it may well be his intellectual property that Red Bull respectfully doesn't share.
They may need to share a little bit with Yuki and whoever partners Max next year. It's going to annoy Max, but it's a team effort.
This is premised on my assumptions though. It may not even be a thing, but it's based on Max's passion for sim racing. All of those hours must amount to some level of expertise at car setup.

Not sure I agree with this, I think Max is just a bit of an introvert in the public eye he can come off as a little selfish for it, I think he's far more relaxed on his streams when he's just really talking to his team mates/sim team

Seen it with other athletes before come across as very cold and I'd say selfish in the public eye but meet them where they are comfortable or talk to people that have meet them when they are in similar social circles and they can be very different people I think that's a lot more where Max is.

User avatar
ringo
240
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

I do not think he is selfish. I just feel he is very competitive and rightfully will not give away any helping tips to his first rival, his teammate. Those tips stay with drivers for their career. No need to permanently strengthen Yuki.
There is much gleaned from engineering data, but nothing beats learning from a teacher who's done it before. Almost like reading a text book, but not having the youtube video with an experienced person to explain what really happens.
For Sure!!

Alexf1
Alexf1
8
Joined: 28 Jun 2018, 18:52

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

You can share all you want but if the other person doesn't have the type of sensor to feel your high level of sensitivity it's useless. Like Jim Clark once asked: why are the others not doing what I'm doing. On which the answer was: because they don't feel what you feel.

Dee
Dee
4
Joined: 25 Jun 2020, 02:07

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 17:07
I do not think he is selfish. I just feel he is very competitive and rightfully will not give away any helping tips to his first rival, his teammate. Those tips stay with drivers for their career. No need to permanently strengthen Yuki.
There is much gleaned from engineering data, but nothing beats learning from a teacher who's done it before. Almost like reading a text book, but not having the youtube video with an experienced person to explain what really happens.
Doesn't Max share all his data and setups? I have seen it said multiple times that he does. There is nothing more he can do then to help...

User avatar
ringo
240
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Dee wrote:
13 Jun 2025, 11:00
ringo wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 17:07
I do not think he is selfish. I just feel he is very competitive and rightfully will not give away any helping tips to his first rival, his teammate. Those tips stay with drivers for their career. No need to permanently strengthen Yuki.
There is much gleaned from engineering data, but nothing beats learning from a teacher who's done it before. Almost like reading a text book, but not having the youtube video with an experienced person to explain what really happens.
Doesn't Max share all his data and setups? I have seen it said multiple times that he does. There is nothing more he can do then to help...
He himself does not share anything. He has admitted as much with Perez.
The team are free to share data of course.
But driver to driver tips m. Never heard of that from Max.
For Sure!!

User avatar
organic
1120
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
13 Jun 2025, 17:21
Dee wrote:
13 Jun 2025, 11:00
ringo wrote:
11 Jun 2025, 17:07
I do not think he is selfish. I just feel he is very competitive and rightfully will not give away any helping tips to his first rival, his teammate. Those tips stay with drivers for their career. No need to permanently strengthen Yuki.
There is much gleaned from engineering data, but nothing beats learning from a teacher who's done it before. Almost like reading a text book, but not having the youtube video with an experienced person to explain what really happens.
Doesn't Max share all his data and setups? I have seen it said multiple times that he does. There is nothing more he can do then to help...
He himself does not share anything. He has admitted as much with Perez.
The team are free to share data of course.
But driver to driver tips m. Never heard of that from Max.
Which drivers are known to give tips to their teammates? It's not really expected outside of perhaps when rookies are alongside

He has always given the other side of the garage full access to his telemetry and setups which seems fair enough to me

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
6
Joined: 20 Feb 2019, 20:12

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
13 Jun 2025, 17:21
He himself does not share anything. He has admitted as much with Perez.
The team are free to share data of course.
But driver to driver tips m. Never heard of that from Max.
That's like the default standard in F1. Drivers will typically not go out of their way to help their teammate. So long as Max isn't making any kind of fuss trying to block the other driver from getting his data, then nothing he's doing here is particularly selfish or abnormal.

Bill
Bill
8
Joined: 28 Apr 2018, 10:28

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

turn 14 Max is 0cm away from the wall ,he is taking risks and coming out of it unscathed its just not about car or driving talent its about precision .maybe spending countless hours on sim helps with that.