Has Red Bull pissed away the WC?

[Pup]

Back to topic.

I think RB have had two bad races, one due to messed up team work, the other due to missed call on the strategy. Although perhaps RB realised the car wasn't suited to Montreal so took a gamble with a radical strategy - they had nothing to lose.

Valencia is another strange circuit.

So we'll not see RB have a chance to get back to their good form until we get back to "normal" cicuits.

Isn't the problem rather that they've only had three good races? These past two were nothing compared to Australia, China, and perhaps Bahrain.

I agree that they could - however unlikely - still pull it together, but I wouldn't call it getting back to form.

[zmiles2]

Keep in mind this is my first season following F1 closely, and i mean very closely. I love this sport and i follow it as close as anyone.
I think you just have to let your boys race. Yes, use the team strategy to optimize points for the contructors championship, but i dont think a driver should EVER be held back. This may come from the fact that i believe in "Winning Breeds Winning" but if you think about it that's been the case this season. Other than Alonso at Bahrain, both drivers from the two other teams that have won races have picked up a win.
Sorry for rambling on and on, but the bottom line is, dont ever hold a driver back. I mean seriously no matter what form of racing it is, thats not right!

[kalinka]

Yes, back in topic. As I mentioned a few pages before, I think RB has a reliability problem, that hurts them in normal tracks as well. And that's what should worry them in long term regarding the championship. They were loosing big points in Turkey, yes, but it can happen to any other team. What I see as a big problem for them is reliability. That's why McLaren now is ahead of them. Too much engine/gearbox,brake problems. Above all that as I said before, we are only seeing the worst problems, the top of the iceberg if you want. Maybe they already have to turn down a lot of things for the long race,because they fear of a failure and that's why they are superior in qualy. Just a thinking, no offense for RB fans intended at all.

[WhiteBlue]

yeah, they have pissed away 28 points in Turkey, but that is nothing against the eight times in eight races they had their races affected by race or qualifying failures. And it stands 7:1 Vettel/Webber in the reliability stakes. That's why I thought the old thread would have been appropriate to continue.

[marcush.]

I´m quite sure Red Bull will face a tough battle now that the gap is closing and they will need to drive the car closer to its potential.
this will not help their reliability ,i´m pretty sure their deficiencies will show even more now ,in terms of zero mistake weekends .
or better zero consequence mistakes...
Maclaren seems to be incredibly eficient at this time ,and ferrari,merc and renault need to improve to stay in front of FI ,Toro rossso and even williams and Sauber...with them in desperate need to stay ahead of lotus... so nobody at this time can afford to rest ..
Getting quicker does not necessarily make the car or operation more prone to failure ,in the case of RB ..I tend to have my doubts .

[Steven]

Right, now that the posts about Webber's wheel banging into the champions wall are all moved to the Canadian GP thread, I hope this topic is back on its rails again...

[Chaparral]

Right, now that the posts about Webber's wheel banging into the champions wall are all moved to the Canadian GP thread, I hope this topic is back on its rails again...

S you condone this method of moderating - I'm very surprised - I guess Gugs 'spikes' the forum ratings on google - he's a tool I'm surprised you, Ciro or MxTifosi have taken this stance - btw not all has been moved to the Canadian GP thread - I wonder how long this post will last nor I on at this place

[marcush.]

incredibly RedBulls technical issues are gone ,but their pitwall is asleep as is their favorite driver.
with that car advantage in hand they where surely not in seperate need to make use of the
pacecar....in fact to give up track position when you have a nearly 1 second advantage per lap in hand is not the best move.
but to have your driver dosing behind the safetycar is not really championlike..

all in all he should have stayed out and run his race as planned..that was my feeling when he dived across the curb into the pit.It simply was unnecessary.the car was good enough to win it on speed alone

[Pierce89]

Red Bull could possibly win both champonshps. I think they've only pissed away a huge cushion, but not either champonship

[marcush.]

I´d think this was one venue were REDBULL had it all in their hands.. but again did not deliver perfectly.
Hamilton having a dnf is not going to happen every weekend and we can be sure they will be strong in the next two races.
Ferrari will be there too so it is not quite as if they would now be in a position to make 1-2 in the next two races .
I guess they willhav eto take a step back with their front wing ,possibly two steps ..that could wipe off their advantage completely...

[PlatinumZealot]

Red Bull are pissing on everybody else that is what!

[donskar]

I´d think this was one venue were REDBULL had it all in their hands.. but again did not deliver perfectly.
Hamilton having a dnf is not going to happen every weekend and we can be sure they will be strong in the next two races.
Ferrari will be there too so it is not quite as if they would now be in a position to make 1-2 in the next two races .
I guess they willhav eto take a step back with their front wing ,possibly two steps ..that could wipe off their advantage completely...

A question to you, marcush, on your above post. Won't the summer vacation virtually guarantee that RB maintains their current advantage at Spa? I just can't see Ferrari OR McL out-developing Newey.

If I were Horner I'd have a talk with Vettel and promise him clear #1 NEXT year if he'll support Webber THIS year.

Only Red Bull can beat Red Bull.

[WhiteBlue]

If I were Horner I'd have a talk with Vettel and promise him clear #1 NEXT year if he'll support Webber THIS year.

Horner would be a complete idiot IMO if he put team orders behind his slower driver.

[WhiteBlue]

incredibly RedBulls technical issues are gone ..

That is actually not true. Red Bull published on Sunday that Sebastian Vettel's starting problems at the British and German GP were caused by an electrical glitch of the steering wheel. The issue was reported on German Sky television by Mark Surer. It has cost Sebastian and the team 25 points if I'm counting right.

This is the list so far:

• spark plug failure in Bahrain
• loose wheel in Australia
• broken brake disk in Barcelona
• defect chassis in Monaco
• broken rear suspension linkage and wishbone in Turkey
• leaking gear box in Montreal
• collapsed nose box and steering wheel electrical glitch in Silverstone
• steering wheel glitch in Germany

Without those problems Seb could have had 75-100 points more. The accident in Turkey had most likely never happened as the grid order had been reversed.

In Germany Mark Webber had a problem with his oil pump which may have cost him a couple of points. He also had a gearbox problem in Montreal which set him back 5 places on the grid.

[lotus7]

If I were Horner I'd have a talk with Vettel and promise him clear #1 NEXT year if he'll support Webber THIS year.

And would this not be team orders ?