Nobody seems too excited over Vettel winning the WDC

[raymondu999]

It looked just like a normal turnin, just quite aggressive. It wasn't a slice across to pit him to the wall

[andrew]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Vettels line for turn 1. Sure it was close but is this not the kind of racing that we want? Vettel is not the first, last and only driver to do the "Schumi-chop". The worst driver at doing this is Webber, and he isn't just limited to doing the chop at the start. Besides, a driver is allowed to make one move to defend their line like Vettel did in turn 1. If anything, Hamilton should have yeilded the corner earlier as he would have seen where Vettel was going, or maybe Vettel was using the Force to control Hamilton(!)

In his final win this year, he almost ran over Hamilton's wing on lap 1, doing his "Schumi chop" even though it hadn't worked for him all year until that point.

I agree on everything else in your post, but "Schumi chop"? Why should it be named after him, I remember Senna doing it a lot more than Schumi. And I don't think there was anything wrong with moving over when that much in front. I think Hamilton was to blame for Silverstone and Monza.

It is a sad fact that certain drivers are allowed to get away with murder in internet forums and others are lambasted for the tinyest thing. Double standards are sadly a common find.

[raymondu999]

If you're talking about Alonso in Singapore, Vettel in Hockenheim/Silverstone, I agree, this would constitute a Schumi chop. But Vettel's Abu Dhabi start would NOT be a Schumi chop. Mark Webber in Nurburgring 09 and Brazil 09 did the Schumi chop too. In Nurburgring on Barrichello and in Brazil against Kimi

[Giblet]

I call it the Schumi chop, because, that is what the rest of the internet calls it.

Google Schumi Chop - About 1,470,000 results

Google Senna Chop - About 783,000 results

I also call it the Schumi chop because I see many comparisons between Vettel and Schumacher. Some even call him Schumi Jr.

If you prefer to call it the Senna Chop, go right ahead. I will not be offended. That's the problem with people that have specific allegiances to specific drivers. I don't want to say fanboys, because that word is too overused.

[Giblet]

It looked just like a normal turnin, just quite aggressive. It wasn't a slice across to pit him to the wall

If Lewis hadn't backed out of it, due to Monza and Singapore being fresh in his mind, Vettel would have ran him over. It wasn't the aggressiveness of the turn in, it was that there was a car there when he started it, if I remember correctly (I haven't rewatched the race yet).

[andrew]

I call it the Schumi chop, because, that is what the rest of the internet calls it.

Google Schumi Chop - About 1,470,000 results

Google Senna Chop - About 783,000 results

I also call it the Schumi chop because I see many comparisons between Vettel and Schumacher. Some even call him Schumi Jr.

If you prefer to call it the Senna Chop, go right ahead. I will not be offended. That's the problem with people that have specific allegiances to specific drivers. I don't want to say fanboys, because that word is too overused.

Yes and Google is such an accurate and trusted source....

There is a very simple and obvious answer as to why the chop al a Schumacher is considered worse and generates more hits than the chop al a Senna. Senna is more popular, probably largely because he died during a race. The dead are often put up on a pedestal for hero worship when they go out like this. Anyway, why does it have to be given a drivers name? It is a legitimate move and long may it continue.

As for comparing Vettel and Schumacher, that is a wildly pointless exercise. Aside from Vettel commenting at length that he does not like these comparissions, whilst stating nothing against Schumacher, but he is his own guy. But these are two drivers from different eras. The cars and the sport have changed so much that any comparision of Schumacher at 23 and Vettel at 23 is a fools errand.

[Giblet]

People get weird when something about their idols is true.

Schumi was known for his chop. He might not have started it, but he made it his bloody signature, and we got to see it constantly for years and years.

Regardless if you trust Google or not, it indexes nearly every web page ever, and it's statistics are not "Google's", they are the "Internet's". You think Google fabricated a few hundred thousand extra references to the Schumi Chop just to get Schumacher fans' goat?

Comparing two German F1 drivers in their youth is a fools errand? Should I compare him to a fish instead? Maybe a pocket calculator?

Now, he is young, German, having a team of some of the best in the sport built around him, and the youngest champion ever. He was also called Schumi Jr by people other than me. This is far from a fools errand. Maybe if I had stated "The non personally biased Formula 1 Chop" you might not be up in arms about a simple expression, that I did not coin.

I merely stated that he has performed the "Schumi Chop" a few times this year, and people get all weird.

News flash: Everything I said is true

[raymondu999]

Alonso did more of a Schumi chop at the start. Vettel and Hamilton, actually I believe Vettel started to turn in before Hamilton though. Watch the start again.

[andrew]

People get weird when something about their idols is true.

Schumi was known for his chop. He might not have started it, but he made it his bloody signature, and we got to see it constantly for years and years.

Regardless if you trust Google or not, it indexes nearly every web page ever, and it's statistics are not "Google's", they are the "Internet's". You think Google fabricated a few hundred thousand extra references to the Schumi Chop just to get Schumacher fans' goat?

Not getting weird, just annoyed at a legitimate and widley used racing move being attributed to one person which is complete and utter BS, no matter how many hit there are on the internet or whatever.

Comparing two German F1 drivers in their youth is a fools errand? Should I compare him to a fish instead? Maybe a pocket calculator?

Now, he is young, German, having a team of some of the best in the sport built around him, and the youngest champion ever. He was also called Schumi Jr by people other than me. This is far from a fools errand. Maybe if I had stated "The non personally biased Formula 1 Chop" you might not be up in arms about a simple expression, that I did not coin.

For the reasons stated above it is a pointless exercise. Two drivers from different eras cannot be compared in all seriousness.

News flash: Everything I said is true

If you say so. You mention this chop like it is something evil but it is a move which ALL drivers make, and not just off the start line. If anything Webber is by far the worst driver for this move. Far worse than anything Schumacher may have done. Given that we all have to put a name to it, I'm going to call it the Webber-chop.

[Raptor22]

He is prodigy of Michael Schumacher. Sebastian has in fact mixed it up quite a bit this year in wheel to wheel fighting. My view on some of those outcomes is somewhat different to the popular media interpretation e.g Instanbul.

HE was alongside Webber yet Webber continued the squeeze. Webber should have ceded the racing line and being behind Vettal it was his duty to keep clear. He did not, and the rest is history. Spoilt child? well, I hold the view that if you have certain values and understanding of the sporting rules and driver code of conduct then you expect others to follow the same. The incident is more due to Vettels naivity and youth thn poor race craft. He expected his team mate to abide by the code of conduct he did not.

Thereafter ,his team mate constantly campaigned to be the teams number 1, something Vettel never requested and to my knowledge, expected. He grew up a bit after that incident.
He bacame more cautious and that affects your aggression in racing. he toned it down so as to not get involved in further incidents. The pressure of being a championship contender is now behind him, his race craft will be a little more self assured and I bet Webber won't be able to try to out politic him going forward....and Webber knows that.

nice try, but i dont hink so.
webber initially squeezed him, but then left him just enough room, and it was vettel who moved over to the right causing the crash, so get your facts right.
nice of you to miss out the button incident in spa, and his clumsy attempts at overtaking at silverstone......

I am wondering if any of you have everraced anything over than an indoor go-kart...?
I have raced Formula K 125 and I can attest to thefact that passing any car or kart requires the full co-operation of the person being passed. Do I gloss over turkeY. No, because as a racer I understand the position that Webber placed Vettel in. He essentially squeezed him onto the white line while the road while clearly narrowing up front.
Webber did not giove his TEAMMAE enough room and the Vettel "Chop" as you call it was teh result of the wheels touching. Please go back and re examine the video footage. Its pretty clear that as Vettel passed Webber he corrects the left (i.e. Webber touched him at that point) and then the car veers right. Aracing incident but a crime for team mates to end up in that position.

I my view the lads a racer and darn tough one at that. He reminds me very much of Aayrton Senna in his youth. Aayrton was not afraid to touch wheels and he persisted with that strategy. Eventually the otherdrivers learned that once he is alongside you better yield f you wish to finish the race. Schumacher is in the same mould. Vettel is in the same mould.

Yet armchair pundits love to critise and condemn but al they've ever done is race an underpowered indoor kart around a circuit at 20mph.

Turn 1 Abu Dhabi is another case in point. Vettel had the line why should he yield it because Hamilton stuck his noce in there. VEttel was clearly ahead and the line was his, not Hamilton's

In Singapore the Hamilton Webber incident, the blame again lies squarely with Webber. Hamilton had done enough to keep his line, Webber yielded too late and cost Lewis his race. Thats racing.

If you want to race then cars will collide, fact of racing. If you want something to moan about that take some Oestragen and have a sex change. that'l be fitting.
For years everyone cmplained about a lack of racing because Schumacher made F1 boring. Now you have racing and they moan about accidents. FFS get a life.

[Dragonfly]

.........
Webber did not giove his TEAMMAE enough room and the Vettel "Chop" as you call it was teh result of the wheels touching. Please go back and re examine the video footage. Its pretty clear that as Vettel passed Webber he corrects the left (i.e. Webber touched him at that point) and then the car veers right. Aracing incident but a crime for team mates to end up in that position.
..............

For years everyone cmplained about a lack of racing because Schumacher made F1 boring. Now you have racing and they moan about accidents. FFS get a life.

=D> =D>
At the time of the Turkey incident I was trying in vain to explain that the "chop" was in fact the car going in uncontrollable state as a result of Vettel's RR tyre hitting the FL tyre of Webber while the latter was fully aware that his tyre is interlocking into the line of the other car.

[myurr]

I'm loathed to argue at the moment with this site becoming more and more about fanboyism than objective discussion, but Vettel moved a full metre across the track before contact was made. I agree that when contact was made his car did spear to the right, but that was after he'd put the cars on a collision course.

[Raptor22]

hello?1 fanboyism...

Just because the truth does not suit you does not make the facts fanboyism.
Webber was falling away from Vettel at the time. the track moves over to the right and yes Vettel did a gentle wander across to take his line but the action was gentle, giving Webber enough time to GIVE HIM ROOM.

Vettel's mistake was assuming Webber would be co-operative.
Webber's mistake was a beligerant mindset that refused to see the bigger picture. He lost 2nd place that day...

[Gerhard Berger]

hello?1 fanboyism...

Just because the truth does not suit you does not make the facts fanboyism.
Webber was falling away from Vettel at the time. the track moves over to the right and yes Vettel did a gentle wander across to take his line but the action was gentle, giving Webber enough time to GIVE HIM ROOM.

Vettel's mistake was assuming Webber would be co-operative.
Webber's mistake was a beligerant mindset that refused to see the bigger picture. He lost 2nd place that day...

Funny you talk about facts, yet make this strange claim that the track moves over to the right between turn 11 and 12, when it is in fact dead straight. The only thing that moves over to the right is the racing line.

Webber gave Vettel enough room, but for some reason Vettel decided to move over to the right towards Webber. That was Vettel's mistake. Webber made no mistake, he was racing hard but fair.

[wittgenfrog]

Vvettel's problem is that he has effectively won a WDC without actually doing very much racing, particularly against his immediate competitors. He has the fastest car (by a mile) and is very fast in it over a qualifying lap. He won most of the races he won from pole (many of the top drivers would have won more of them from that position)and used the speed of the car to distance himself.

When he did have to go 'wheel to wheel' he tended to take it too literally and crashed into people. In my view he is a fast, but unrefined driver, and needs to learn about overtaking and some humility if he want to become a great.