Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
I figured since this was the Red Bull 2011 page, this was a good a place as any to talk about the team, as opposed to the cars themselves. If not, or if there's a more appropriate thread, please let me know.
I was wondering if there might be a strategy among the Red Bull Team principles to have Mark Webber consistently 2nd or 3rd behind Vettel? While it may pertain to things like P1 and P2, it may be more prevalent in terms of pit-stops, where keeping your number 2 driver behind your number 1 presents a challenge to other drivers trying to take 1st place.
While this may seem like a Pro-Webber conspiracy theory, I feel there is some credence to it since - as we saw Hamilton do to Vettel - an effective defensive/offensive driver can give whoever is ahead of the battle a commanding lead. Also, in Valencia, Vettel was seen to have a relatively consistent time interval between him and Webber. However, once it was clear that Alonso had gotten past, Vettel put the hammer down and started increasing the gaps every lap, rather than just going for broke from the start.
Frankly, if I were Horner, this is exactly what I would do to my drivers. Vettel shows his skill with a clear track, but has yet to really demonstrate that hard-charging attitude to get past the best drivers (Silverstone '11). Webber, though has demonstrated time and time again that he's aggressive enough to move up the pack (China '11) and tangle with the top leaders (Valencia '11, Silverston '11) and keep going at it, even with mixed results (Montreal '11).
If one looks at some of the races this season, one can see bit of a pattern where the best races have been where Webber was holding up contenders, giving Vettel commanding leads, while other races where pit stops, accidents, and technical issues kept Webber from the top made for Red Bull losses or closer endings (all conjecture of course):
Australia - Vettel, Hamilton 2nd, Webber 5th behind Alonso --> (KERS Issues?)
Malaysia - Vettel, Button, Webber 4th behind Heidfeld --> (KERS Issues?)
China - Hamilton, Vettel, Webber 3rd from 18th ahead of Button
Turkey - Vettel, Webber, Alonso, with +8.8s between Vettel/Webber
Spain - Vettel, Hamilton, Button, Webber 4th ahead of Alonso (Webber passed Alonso on the 39th lap), +0.6s between Vettel/Hamilton
Monaco - Vettel, Alonso, Button, (sub 3s interval before red flag) Webber 4th (Poor Pit stop?)
Europe - Vettel, Alonso, Webber, +10.9 between Vettel/Alonso
Canada - Button, Vettel, Webber, (Hamilton Hit?)
Britain - Alonso, Vettel, Webber, +16s between Alonso/Vettel (Hamilton Hold Up, Pit-stop)
Once again, this is all conjecture and reading patterns that are heavily influenced by chance and skill. But, despite thoughts about "biting the hand that feeds", I think Red Bull will want to keep Webber because he is a good enough driver to contest with the likes of Alonso and Hamilton if kept in that position to still arrive on the podium for constructor's points - giving Vettel space to cruise into large leads and fastest laps, while still being just slightly slower overall (at least in qualifying) than Vettel so that he won't challenge as often as one may guess. Considering the number of good drivers in the top 3 - 4 teams, this may be another tactic for securing the Constructor's and the Driver's Championship.
n smikle wrote:
I can imagine a driver disagreeing with commands and letting it known by speaking out, but it's the first time I have seen a driver just plain ignoring the Boss.
This is what my father allways reminds when talking about his active years as a F1 fan:
1981 is the year and Carlos Reutemann was told not to challenge Alan Jones for 1st place in the open Gp of the season (Long Beach). He took his 2nd place but in the second race of the season, under a heavy raining sky; Reutemann took 1st place, leaving Jones behind with a big gap. Williams order (i dont recall if Frank or Patrick)was to wait for the aussie and let him take the 1st place. In those years communications between pitwall and the driver, were way too much ¿precarious?: In every lap they posted him the sign which said: Jones - Reut . Meaning that Jones should be the 1st and Reutemann the 2nd.
This time, Reutemann didnt agree with that and decided to keep his victory, later he claimed he did not see the sign because of the rain. Years later he told that was a kind of a lie hehe.
No one from Williams team assist to the celebrations leaving Reutamnn alone.
Later in that year he was first in the championship, and its well known that Williams sabotaged his own driver on the last race of the season, losing the championship despite the advantage over Piquet until this race.
I think there is an interview in which Reutemann meets Patrick Head in 2008 and they had their first "talk" since those years about what happened between them.
