Red Bull 2011

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Raptor22
Raptor22
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Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 22:48

Red Bull 2011

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Again you read what you want to read, post what you want to post while glossing over the facts.

SLC said the function of the exhaust is to increase the mass flow UNDER the FLOOR.
Go back and do your research. You will find posts from myself on the matter as well which concurs with SLC' assessment of the Renault FEE.

Increase mass flow under the flow = higher expansion = bigger pressure gradient = higher downforce.

Shall we go over that thread in another 30 pages to humour you?

segedunum
segedunum
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:49

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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It might do you some good if you were to read a lot more rather than simply posting away and hitting the caps button too often to highlight things that are totally irrelevant......

We're getting off-topic, but we'll attempt to draw a line under this.

SLC never said anywhere that I read that the exhaust was blowing under the floor. That and increasing the mass flow under the floor are two entirely different things that are not mutually exclusive. It would help your case if you could point to where he thought these exhausts were pointing, so I will do it for you:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9187&p=220804#p220804
SLC wrote:If the exhausts do indeed exit towards the front of the car the exhaust outlets will be just behind the bargeboard blowing fumes out and rearwards towards the leading edge of the floor. The additional mass flow provided here will increase the main floor suction peak as well as strengthen the T-tray/BBoard/Canard vortex system.

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horse
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Location: Bilbao, ES

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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segedunum wrote:SLC never said anywhere that I read that the exhaust was blowing under the floor. That and increasing the mass flow under the floor are two entirely different things that are not mutually exclusive.
I think the assumption is that if the mass flow is being increased about the floor leading edge then at least some of the exhaust must be travelling under the floor, initially at least.

It's exit route is much more uncertain I would say, especially with Renault sensoring up the rear tyres, as the exhaust gases may be escaping the floor before reaching the diffuser. The complete flowfield is somewhat speculative, at this point.
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu

Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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segedunum wrote:I don't think SLC ever mentioned blowing exhaust gas under the floor.
Yes he did. Here's the post. :arrow: viewtopic.php?p=221785#p221785

Probably best to continue the conversation in that thread too?

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Ferraripilot
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
Location: Atlanta

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Some seem to think RB is still holding back quite a bit. Think they will break 1:21 this week? I think so.

BreezyRacer
BreezyRacer
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Joined: 04 Nov 2006, 00:31

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Ferraripilot wrote:Some seem to think RB is still holding back quite a bit. Think they will break 1:21 this week? I think so.
Two weeks is still a long time till the first race .. I would think that they, and other top teams, except maybe McLaren, will hide their true potential and concentrate on understanding these crappy tires.

This whole tire situation .. well Bernie thinks it's good for the show .. I think every once in a while it spices things up like Canada last year .. but every race being purely about tire management? I think that just sucks for the sport.

NormalChris
NormalChris
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 21:44

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Diesel wrote:Indeed, show us pictures of "other teams sprouted bulges during the year"...
Image

Is this what you mean?

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dren
228
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Ferraripilot wrote:Some seem to think RB is still holding back quite a bit. Think they will break 1:21 this week? I think so.
Perez just knocked out a 1m21.176s
Honda!

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ringo
240
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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volarchico wrote:
ringo wrote:Depends on how he was asked and what he chooses to say.
...
Sometimes you people gobble things up without thinking for yourselves.
All journalists have F1 sources and not all reports or predictions are right, becuase questions can be put a certain way, and answers can be put a certain way as well....
Use your own brain and eyes.
In general, I agree with the concept of thinking for yourself. It's never a bad idea to engage your brain. But at the same time, I could think for myself for a long, long time about certain technical F1 issue and not come up with an answer, or I could ask an expert whose job it is to design F1 cars and probably get a much more accurate answer much faster. It baffles me how frequently people on this forum think they know "best". Ringo, usually I find your posts intelligent and helpful, but this time I'll side with scarbs and Newey.
Let me be patient here, and please follow my words here.

Now you said you will side with Newey on what NEWEY SAID.
What did he say exactly?

Quote it please, and please tell me where did he mention reasons for the change in design on the RB7.

That's all i want to ask. Keep in mind, i am not in disagreement with the role of the V nose. I am against the idea that a quote 2 years ago placed against the 2011 regulations has anything to do with the RB7 interpretation.
Newey said nothing about that, for that was 2 years prior to specific rule changes.

I said something on it, and there is no existing information or insight into the V nose as it relates to potential weaknesses. None.
Understand now? So i can only be disproved, if a journalist goes out there and ask specifically about the V nose weakness and if it was at optimal refinement in 2009.

I know what the flow looks like. Keep in mind i have no bias to one idea or the other. Zero keel and flat bottom has less disturbed flow, and i stick by that observation.
For Sure!!

gridwalker
gridwalker
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Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 12:22
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Diesel wrote:Indeed, show us pictures of "other teams sprouted bulges during the year"...
They appeared on the F60 too ...

Image
Last edited by gridwalker on 08 Mar 2011, 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

imightbewrong
imightbewrong
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Joined: 07 Aug 2008, 16:18

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Those were never raced, it was just tested in some free practices by multiple teams. Allegedly to test the visibility.

volarchico
volarchico
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Joined: 26 Feb 2010, 07:27

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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ringo wrote:Let me be patient here, and please follow my words here.

Now you said you will side with Newey on what NEWEY SAID.
What did he say exactly?

Quote it please, and please tell me where did he mention reasons for the change in design on the RB7.

That's all i want to ask. Keep in mind, i am not in disagreement with the role of the V nose. I am against the idea that a quote 2 years ago placed against the 2011 regulations has anything to do with the RB7 interpretation.
Newey said nothing about that, for that was 2 years prior to specific rule changes.

I said something on it, and there is no existing information or insight into the V nose as it relates to potential weaknesses. None.
Understand now? So i can only be disproved, if a journalist goes out there and ask specifically about the V nose weakness and if it was at optimal refinement in 2009.

I know what the flow looks like. Keep in mind i have no bias to one idea or the other. Zero keel and flat bottom has less disturbed flow, and i stick by that observation.
How about I be patient with you. Hopefully you can learn how to follow along...I'll make it simple for you, and since you wanted to come off sounding like a jerk, I'll play your game.

If you check my quote, I said I would "side with scarbs and Newey". So to make it clearer and easier for you to understand, I will side with scarbs and trust that he is telling the truth about Newey's statements. My trust might be misplaced, but that is my choice. I cannot quote Newey's words directly, but scarbs can since he interviewed him.

On top of that, I didn't say your points were wrong about the 2011 design and regulations. Actually, I never once mentioned the 2011 design. We were specifically talking about the V nose and what its purpose is. Scarbs interviewed the designer of the feature as to what its purpose was so there is not really any room for argument. Perhaps it has changed in 2 years? There may be other reasons for it now, and you won't find any argument from me. So go ahead and argue on about the weaknesses of the V nose all you want. I'm not part of that conversation.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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volarchico wrote: We were specifically talking about the V nose and what its purpose is. Scarbs interviewed the designer of the feature as to what its purpose was so there is not really any room for argument. Perhaps it has changed in 2 years? There may be other reasons for it now, and you won't find any argument from me. So go ahead and argue on about the weaknesses of the V nose all you want. I'm not part of that conversation.
This is a RB7 thread, so I was never talking specifically about the V nose, because the car doesn't have a drastic V nose.
We all know of the purpose of the V nose, and it's benefits.

I was talking about an issue with V nose that involves the suspension. Then i was pounced upon. :wink:

I added that the 2011 regs does not rule out V nose designs, and the change to a flatter nose and zero keel suspension; with a hint of v nose, was simply an improvement.

Scarbs said this:
Raising a rectangular nose to a similar height excessively raises CofG and also provides a less attractive wishbone mounting.
and i am not putting him on the spot, because this is valid. But this was 2009, Newey wouldn't have to encounter the problem of similar height until 2 years time.
And there was migration to less atractive wishbone mounting and rectangular tub as well.

Now these regulations do not rule out a V nose design as i said, or single keel. It just means an extreme V nose is curtailed, and bringing it in line to compete on the same level as a rectangular nose.

The benefits of the V nose were probably so delicate, the change to lift the whole rectangular nose with the zero keel instead had more aerodynamc gains. We can still see a hint of it on the 7 anyway.

Image
Image
Image

just for observation on the changes to front, and mid body, i'm not making a point with these photos.
For Sure!!

tjaeger
tjaeger
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Joined: 13 Oct 2010, 03:52

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Well, either everyone else is sandbagging big time or RB got them by a mile, gee.

If the trend from testing is true and carries over into the season we will see a 2004 like season, aka Ferrari and Schumacher.

Would be Vettel against 'Kylie' all season. Hope 'Kylie' does at least not have another bike accident breaking 2 legs or 3 rips, otherwise it will be all boring.
You cannot engineer out stupidity.

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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I thought Webber's public nickname was "Potsie" not "Kylie"
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