2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[Edax]

They have to show that the action of ves changed the wing. I think that is very hard to prove.

This part is easy. They can take Bottas' rear wing, if that is legal still, replicate the action of Verstappen (no one can exactly say if he did touch, for the sake of argument let's assume) on that rear wing and prove that, it damaged exactly the way it damaged Lewis' rear wing. Someone claimed, there are sensors on the car to measure the weight put on it, so that would be a good scientific way to find the stress.

I don’t think anyone believes that he altered the rear wing. That area is used to push the car around by the mechanics. Also in parc ferme. If it was that easy then they could run an illegal wing and push it back on the way to scrutineering.

< perhaps Ves found the secret button for illegal wing adjustment>

Kidding aside he was checking the dimensions on the car. I can understand that Merc isn’t happy about that. Especially since they were hit with an inspection afterwards. Also the FIA wouldn’t be too pleased with drivers trying to do their job.

[proteus]

Regardless of Parc Fermé rules and what Max did, it doesn't change the fact that the Mercedes was illegal. It's easy to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Max was unable to cause this anomaly, therefore it should be a Mercedes DSQ. No sane engineer with a degree would claim that such thing is even remotely possible in such a short time. Max is not a strong man.

"Carbon fiber is a very strong material, but like any material it does some things better than others. Carbon fiber is very strong when stretched or bent, but weak when compressed or exposed to high shock (e.g. a carbon fiber bar is extremely difficult to bend, but will crack easily if hit with a hammer)."

Although what your saying is correct, it’s not that simple in law.

Murder cases have been thrown out for less on technicalities.

Once one driver had DRS stuck opened and two mechanics couldnt budge the wing with their full streinght, not to mention the wing needs to remain closed at speeds 300+kmh under massive aero load. If the wing is really illegal, there should be a strict punishment in terms of banning the car for remaining sessions of the weekend. And if they feel so hurt with Max touching the wing, then they should relegate him to last on the grid.

But if both teams have illegal cars in one way or another, all four cars should be banned from racing at this venue at once.

In the end there might be no sanctions at all, since Liberty wants the show and show brings the money which they desperately need....only a decade ago Mclarens would be kicked out of the race weekend with a blink of an eye with something like this happening.

[nokivasara]

Not sure this video is shared before; the measurement of the DRS



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This is quite remarcable, like having a fuel tank that's too big or car being too light. When did a team cheat like this, other than the Ferrari fuel gate?
Flexing wings and squatting suspension is more like the gray area stuff we usually see.

[Wouter]

Aren't there multiple instances (on video!) of Vettel touching competitors' cars with absolutely no consequences?

I feel like Mercedes would be *really* grasping at straws trying to get Verstappen involved here, so I don't think the decision being postponed until tomorrow has anything to do with this.

I have never seen VET touch another car. Only look. At least from my memory.

[Dee]

Source: 2021 Formula 1 Sporting Regulations
34.6 A Competitor may not modify any part on the car or make changes to the set-up of the suspension whilst the car is being held under parc fermé conditions. In the case of a breach of this Article the relevant driver must start the race from the pit lane and follow the procedures laid out in Article 36.2.
In order that the scrutineers may be completely satisfied that no alterations have been made to the suspension systems or aerodynamic configuration of the car (with the exception of the front wing) whilst in pre-race parc fermé, it must be clear from physical inspection that changes cannot be made without the use of tools.

This is important. To be legal, changes cannot be made without the use of tools.

Max would not have been able to make a change or modify the car without tools

[jjn9128]

I’m afraid law does not work like this.

All that’s needed is an element of doubt.

If Max touched the exact part that failed the test (and before the test) then it’s thrown out on a technicality.

However, Max breaking the rules is night and day so a penalty.

I believe in a court of law an expert would be called to determine the failure mode and if such an incidental brush could cause said failure. As an expert I'm going to say it cannot/would not. It's for the court to decide whether how to weight my testimony

[cirrusflyer]

As I’ve stated before, I think it’s a moot point as to whether Max could have damaged it.

He’s on camera breaking the sporting rules and touching the very part in question.

It is not just Hamiltons car he shouldnt touch, it is as per roules, his too.

Secod part is tricky. The driver, operates the car, opens the headrest and puts it back to go in and out of it in parc ferme. Difficult to describe what part of his own car, a driver is allowed to "touch" in parc ferme.

You are right! Drivers step on the cars too... But there are some parts of the car they usualy do not touch (if the RW is that part? ).

[Tvetovnato]

Not sure this video is shared before; the measurement of the DRS



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This is quite remarcable, like having a fuel tank that's too big or car being too light. When did a team cheat like this, other than the Ferrari fuel gate?
Flexing wings and squatting suspension is more like the gray area stuff we usually see.

Very premature to accuse someone of cheating when no details have been presented. The team knows they will be probed at some point, so wouldn’t it be quite embarassing and foolish to try an obvious cheat like that when you will 100 % get caught at some point?

[Wouter]

[adrianjordan]

Wow, how many pages of, basically, "I'm right and you're wrong" opinion based posts.

Lewis' wing and Max breaching Parc Ferme are 2 separate cases, that just happen to be connected by the involvement of Lewis' car.

I do agree that the FiA and Liberty are trying to find a way to avoid heavily penalising Lewis because that would effectively be WDC over and they won't like the idea of the championship being decided in the Stewards' office.

It would not surprise me to see both drivers sent to the back of the grid, which could then make for a fantastic race with them both coming back through the field.

There would also be an added sense of brinkmanship as each team would have to decide whether to also take an entirely new PU, knowing that the associated penalty would be a disadvantage if the other driver didn't.

And then Lando can go on to win the Brazilian GP....

[LionKing]

Very premature to accuse someone of cheating when no details have been presented. The team knows they will be probed at some point, so wouldn’t it be quite embarassing and foolish to try an obvious cheat like that when you will 100 % get caught at some point?

By this logic, nobody would have ever cheated in F1.

[DChemTech]

Aren't there multiple instances (on video!) of Vettel touching competitors' cars with absolutely no consequences?

I feel like Mercedes would be *really* grasping at straws trying to get Verstappen involved here, so I don't think the decision being postponed until tomorrow has anything to do with this.

I have never seen VET touch another car. Only look. At least from my memory.

Very nice

[nokivasara]

Not sure this video is shared before; the measurement of the DRS



Verstuurd vanaf mijn LE2123 met Tapatalk

This is quite remarcable, like having a fuel tank that's too big or car being too light. When did a team cheat like this, other than the Ferrari fuel gate?
Flexing wings and squatting suspension is more like the gray area stuff we usually see.

Very premature to accuse someone of cheating when no details have been presented. The team knows they will be probed at some point, so wouldn’t it be quite embarassing and foolish to try an obvious cheat like that when you will 100 % get caught at some point?

Yes it would be very embarassing for Mercedes, that’s why I find it remarcable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a RB fan trying to stirr some s*** up, just that it's unusual to see cars fail these tests.

[PhillipM]

If he's pushing his fingers between the slot gap to check the profile, it's more than concievable to flex the flap by a few millimeters, easily.
And it would put the DRS mechanism in compression rather than tension that it normally operates in, it's therefore more than possible that doing that takes up any clearances or slop that's in the mechanism to prevent binding, the difference between a pass and a fail will be taken to the last mm by every team, after all.
I would imagine Merc can definately argue it on that point if they can show the FIA enough tolerance in the mechanism.

[f1jcw]

I have never seen VET touch another car. Only look. At least from my memory.

Very nice

and utterly irrelevant