2014 British GP - Silverstone

[WaikeCU]

BTW "Especially the lap when he overtook me he was three or four times off track". Now Lauda likes breaking all the rules but I don't remember defending "racing" when penalties gifted Hamilton easy win. Let's see the consistency and laugh if it happens again: in two cars duel you can do just about everything with going off track. I bet there will be hard warnings and penalties. No penalty for Raikkonen? You can't come back on track like that and cause dangerous high-speed accident, can you, what about Safety and Driving Standards? Big words can be switched on and off in F1 (Maldo doing the same 5 places, no one would even blink).

That run off areas is the cause of the problem. Why not put a gravel trap? I don't see alot of drivers going off there unless they are going side by side flatout through corner 5. There's downsides in every solution. Gravel trap causes the speed to drop, but the car would be uncontrollable when going off. With tarmac runoff you have the other way around. The car maintains speed, but is controllable. The fact that Kimi had this massive crash, was because he barely slowed down when running off and was caught off by the combination of speed, grass and a ditched surface when returning to the track. Braking is the last thing on a drivers mind when racing.

[George-Jung]

Braking is the last thing on a drivers mind when racing.

You do win the most time in the braking zone..

[WaikeCU]

Braking is the last thing on a drivers mind when racing.

You do win the most time in the braking zone..

Yes, but not at the relative beginning of a straight, I meant.

[AnthonyG]

I think he meant slowing down,

[i70q7m7ghw]

Just watched the race again. Ferrari was much faster in mid-range acceleration than the red bull, simply driving away from vetttel trough the first couple of gears, then when drs, slipstream and drag started to kick in vettel was gaining again, but at that time alonso was long gone on the straights. That's just an observable fact.

I think they had the MGU-K configured to defend on the straights. You are right, the car accelerates quicker, but still lacked the top speed. At the end of the straights the tail light was flashing which I understand indicates a reduction in power from the MGU-K.

[Mandrake]

Alonso vs. Vettel for me was the best part of the race. Damn, Alonso can drive. The guy is an absolute joy to watch on the track. Hats off to him. I'm a Hamilton fan, but kudos to Alonso for such an amazing drive in that car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3-ACjgxSno
It was fantastic how Alo controled Vet in corners, braking his racing line all the times. + looking in mirrors where Vet crossed the racing borders.
This guy is a monster.
Vettel's car was a rocket , how he could put so early on throttle and to drive so close to Alo.
Alonso showed today why he is best F1 driver.

Alonso was superb through the race but it all meant nothing when he was reminded by Vettel why Seb is a 4 time WDC. great racing , wheel to wheel stuff. Although both of them should have just shut up and raced I think it was Alonso who cried the most. Strange how upset he became when he was showed up by Seb in a straight up battle.

If you would take off your Alonso glasses and imagine it wasn't Alonso driving the Ferrari but Maldonado you would tell a different story. Vettel had the faster car thanks to fresh tires and superior cornering performance, though lacking grunt on the straights. Alonso did some very dirty moves knowing that Vettel would give space. All this cutting across Vettel and turning in while Vettel was already alongside is dirty and against the rules.

In the end it was effective and made a boring race somewhat watchable, but the praise he gets for it I just cannot understand.

You just gotta love how Alonso is glorified and gets away with way too many things. Every other driver would have received a DT Penalty for being out of position in the grid. Alonso doesn't. It doesn't matter if the DT is too harsh or not, it's a clear case and there are a lot of similar cases with a DT as result. Again, had it been Maldonado I'd bet a huge sum that he'd had gotten a DT instead of just a 5s penalty.

Overall I think it's far from fair and consistent what is going on in F1. Red flag a race and the order from 1-2 laps before the flag is taken for the final result. Red flag in Lap 1 without a single lap completed and the current order is taken? This is just decisions based on what promises to give a better show.....if I want to see a show I watch Wrestling or Nitro Circus or other staged events...

[George-Jung]

...Alonso did some very dirty moves knowing that Vettel would give space. All this cutting across Vettel and turning in while Vettel was already alongside is dirty and against the rules...

B.S.(!) it was firm but fair racing from Alonso's side and he showed why many think he is -one of- the greatest.
Vettel just isn't used to battle that hard, so he needs to adjust to it.. because it is something completely different than starting P1 and control the race from there..

[SectorOne]

Yea Vettel needs to be way more ruthless and a bit smarter, the things he pulls on Perez won´t work on guys like Alonso because he´s seen every trick in the book. Whatever Vettel tried, Alonso has been pulling for years by now.



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Regarding speeds of Ferrari/RBR

You can see an excellent example when they are in their last battle heading up to Copse.
Vettel gets better exit, it then equalizes and they are dead even in speed but the more the speed piles on the Ferrari starts slowly but surely walking the Red Bull. That too me looked like a downforce/drag situation.
Possibly a smidge of extra horses in the Ferrari but i don´t think it´s much at all, they are both miles of the Merc PU.

[Cam]

Yea Vettel needs to be way more ruthless and a bit smarter, the things he pulls on Perez won´t work on guys like Alonso because he´s seen every trick in the book. Whatever Vettel tried, Alonso has been pulling for years by now.



-
Regarding speeds of Ferrari/RBR

You can see an excellent example when they are in their last battle heading up to Copse.
Vettel gets better exit, it then equalizes and they are dead even in speed but the more the speed piles on the Ferrari starts slowly but surely walking the Red Bull. That too me looked like a downforce/drag situation.
Possibly a smidge of extra horses in the Ferrari but i don´t think it´s much at all, they are both miles of the Merc PU.

To be fair, I've not seen Alonso be that aggressive to defend a lost cause position previously. There was rage in his voice. Vettel appeared to show a significant amount of restraint actually. He could have easily been the 'DH' who refused to budge and both cars end up in the fence. That didn't happen. So it takes two to tango.

For all the talk of 'you musta leavea the spacea', actions speak louder, sometimes.

It was hard racing. Something we all crave. But there's degrees. Not all blocking is 'great' just as not all non-passing is 'weak'.

[George-Jung]

To be fair, I've not seen Alonso be that aggressive to defend a lost cause position previously.

He was defending a position against 'the guy who robbed him from 2 WDC titles'...

[Cam]

Stole - won fairly - either either I suppose

Whatever the reason, it had me in stitches. Haven't laughed like that in a while. The combination of tit for tat accusations of driving infringements and almost all common sense going out the window. Take about a show! Was like a soap drama at 200kph.

[SectorOne]

It was hard racing. Something we all crave. But there's degrees. Not all blocking is 'great' just as not all non-passing is 'weak'.

Most of the blocking was because Vettel choked mid-way in the overtake.
He never really pulled through completely and just assumed Alonso would run him over.

There´s one where Alonso comes back really hard in Brooklands. That was a chance where Vettel could have went round the outside of him but he doesn´t pull the trigger, he already assumes Alonso will run him out.

Then there was so many other incidents where Vettel had no right to a gap at all but decided to complain about it anyways.

Like Luffield, almost breaking his front wing. Then in Copse, thinking his front wing is enough to warrant space in that corner.
You need at least half a car length inside in that corner to claim anything.

Edit: now don´t get me wrong, Alonso complained like a madman as well, at one point i thought Balestre was driving the Ferrari. He made orders and everything

All i saw was some proper racing between two guys fighting tooth and nail for points and i loved every second of it.

[bhall II]

In terms of performance, and even considering the state of Alonso's tires and supposed stalling issues, I think the F14T and the RB10 were generally comparable enough that to call Alonso's aggressive tactics to hold position a "lost cause" is a bit misleading in context. While that eventually proved to be the case, all it would have taken is a miscue under pressure on Vettel's part for Alonso to hold, and the outcome would have been just as valid as what ultimately occurred. To me, that's the very essence of what it means to race.

Vettel and his machinery got the better of Alonso and his machinery. Interpretations beyond that are obviously subjective. But, damn, watching it was the most fun I've had with F1 this year.

[aral]

Most of the blocking was because Vettel choked mid-way in the overtake.

Do you not think that Vettel was playing safe? On a number of occasions, Alonso nearly took him out. One example is when Vettel was aongside Alonso, and then Alonso pushed him to a position where he would be either totally on the grass. Alonso just did not leave him the required space. I wouldnt blame Vettel for wanting to be sure he finished the race. Alonso played dirty, and even before they were together, Alonso had received three warnings and a black/white flag, for not keeping to the track, yet he continued to do just that.
but RBR just mistimed their pit stop. Had Alonso not been able to get by as the Bull came out, Vettel would have scampered off into the distance and could very easily have been second.He must have lost at least 20 secs being stuck behind the superwide Ferrari.

[Mandrake]

This first "come back" of Alonso is enough to show it. Had Vettel stuck to his line there would have been an accident if Alonso pulled through, that was a super agressive move leaning on Seb's cooperation. Effective, but far from clean racing. Also in the right hander after that he tried to squeeze Vettel on the inside but had a tad bit of oversteer and ran wide. Otherwise Vettel would have to had taken speed out to not ruin his front wing.

I gladly repeat myself: Had this been something by Alonso there would be an outcry of how Maldonado cannot drive etc. It does not make it better only because it's teflonso.

While Alonso is great at overtaking quite often, his defending yesterday was questionable in my eyes.