[ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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dans79
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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godlameroso wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 22:13

So why didn't Bottas try to go faster if he had an extra set of tires? Are you saying that Hamilton was holding up Bottas despite Bottas never being in DRS range at all? I'm not sure I buy what you're selling. The fact is neither Mercedes could build up a gap to give them a free pit stop, no matter what they tried, because they weren't as far ahead of RB as they were in the last two races. Mercedes never intended to two stop, it wasn't even an option, and either Bottas no longer has any ambition to be champion, or he tried to beat Hamilton couldn't either way RB was closer here than they were in the last two races.

Yes, that was exactly what Lewis was doing. He was going just fast enough to keep Bottas out of DRS range.

If they had to stop again for fresh tires for any reason Lewis was going to be at a disadvantage. Bottas had a fresh set of Medium available, and lewis only had used tires available. Thus Lewis needed to make sure he and Bottas didn't build a big enough gap that Bottas could take a free pit stop.

The medium compound runners were expected to stop between lap 21 and 24 for hards. however Ham, Bot, Ver, Lec, and Str all stopped on lap 13 during the second safety car period. That made Lewis's job somewhat easier, as everyone had to baby their tires. However, Lewis would still be vulnerable to a SC or Virtual SC. Max had a fresh set of mediums he would have surely stopped for, and Merc would have been forced to respond to that, giving Bottas a tire advantage.

By going just fast enough to keep Bottas out of DRS range he ensured that Bottas would wear his tires more, and that the gap to max would not grow very large.

Don't forget that in shanghai 2015 Nico accused Lewis of doing exactly this.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/mot ... 71626.html
“It’s interesting to hear from Lewis that he was just thinking about himself and about his pace in front, because that was compromising my race,” Rosberg said. “He was driving slower than necessary at the beginning of each stint, which meant that Sebastian closed up on me and that opened up the chance for him to try and pass me with an early pit stop.

“It was unnecessary and cost me a lot of race time as a result and meant that my tyres died at the end, so I’m unhappy about that.”
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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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tangodjango wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 23:31
Wynters wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 23:19
godlameroso wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 22:57
He was managing the race, obviously, you have to manage the race, you have limited resources. You cannot run the engine at full tilt all race long, it can be done strategically. Hamilton wasn't racing LeClerc, he was racing Bottas and Verstappen. Hamilton knows Mercedes is faster, so realistically he's racing Bottas.
Just because he wasn't directly racing Leclerc, doesn't mean that Leclerc finding a second-a-lap of time vs the Mercedes is irrelevant. Unless you think Leclerc was desperately pushing every lap and Hamilton wasn't?

I agree that he wasn't racing Verstappen. He did a lap on three wheels and still finished comfortably ahead of him.
godlameroso wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 22:57
He is racing, he isn't just cruising around, you seem to think that Bottas is so beneath Hamilton that he doesn't even have to try...plus Hamilton's .3 advantage over Bottas...So Bottas was just cruising in his number 2 spot to make Hamilton look good
Where did I say this? Why are you deliberately misrepresenting what I have said rather than addressing the evidence I've presented?

I have said, several times, that a driver can be driving to the limit of his ability but that doesn't mean that the car is turned all the way up.

If the only competition is your team mate, and the team has turned both cars down to 'X'%, then you could still be racing him as hard as you can in equal machinery (see the arguments between Rosberg and Hamilton when both were sneakily turning their engines up against team orders in Bahrain and Barcelona) but you aren't posting the quickest lap times you could if the car was turned up.
godlameroso wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 22:57
Hamilton can just cruise in the dominant Mercedes that's at least .7 seconds faster than the nearest challenger,
If you have a dominant car, why wouldn't you cruise to maximise reliabilty?

What's the benefit to blasting around at 'X' seconds a lap faster than everyone else and then having mechanical failures every other race because you've overstressed the components?

Why win by more than the safe amount?
godlameroso wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 22:57
So Bottas was just cruising in his number 2 spot to make Hamilton look good, and he did just enough to make Mercedes look good by keeping a 5 second gap to Verstappen when they could have taken him to 'gapplebees' and taken a free pit stop with ease? I guess they didn't do it because then they'd make a mockery of the sport.
You said that Mercedes had no intention of stopping again. So why do you think they would damage the car even more than the usual race wear in order to pull 30 seconds in front? They had such a comfortable lead over Verstappen (10 seconds, not 5) that Bottas was able to cruise around with bad vibrations obscuring his vision for 4 laps, then blow a tyre before the final corner, and still have time to ease off that corner, drive down the straight, tip toe around two more corners, drive off and rejoin before Verstappen overtook him. How much of a cushion do you think Mercedes feel they need?

Don't you think it's weird that Mercedes open the gap to Verstappen at a rate of a second every 2-3 laps, until it got to ten seconds. And then it mysteriously stayed there for 8 laps until Bottas had problems?

"The secret, is to win going as slowly as possible." - Niki Lauda
Thank you for your rational detailed comments and evidence in the face of absolutely inane what-aboutery and illogical clutching at straws. I don't know how you maintain your patience.
Agreed

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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godlameroso wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 22:13


So why didn't Bottas try to go faster if he had an extra set of tires? Are you saying that Hamilton was holding up Bottas despite Bottas never being in DRS range at all? I'm not sure I buy what you're selling. The fact is neither Mercedes could build up a gap to give them a free pit stop, no matter what they tried, because they weren't as far ahead of RB as they were in the last two races. Mercedes never intended to two stop, it wasn't even an option, and either Bottas no longer has any ambition to be champion, or he tried to beat Hamilton couldn't either way RB was closer here than they were in the last two races.
We see on numerous occasions a driver holding up a chasing driver who is ostensibly quicker. It's a skill that any half decent driver must have. Hamilton kept Bottas at bay - it was obvious on the timings. Bottas closed a bit but never got within DRS, then fell back a bit then caught back up, then fell back a bit. That's a driver being kept in check.

If the Mercedes had run and hid, as I'm sure they could have, Bottas would have had a free stop and then a Hungary 2019-style attempt to catch and pass Hamilton. Hamilton wouldn't have been able to react because he had no fresh rubber that would do a third stint longer than about 5 laps. Hamilton had to keep Bottas close enough to Max/the pack to prevent a cheeky undercut.

Of course, if you're a RedBull fan - which I believe you are - then you're not going to like that narrative. It certainly seems an idea closer to the truth than RedBull having found a few tenths of a second of race pace in a week.
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Just_a_fan wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 23:46
godlameroso wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 22:13


So why didn't Bottas try to go faster if he had an extra set of tires? Are you saying that Hamilton was holding up Bottas despite Bottas never being in DRS range at all? I'm not sure I buy what you're selling. The fact is neither Mercedes could build up a gap to give them a free pit stop, no matter what they tried, because they weren't as far ahead of RB as they were in the last two races. Mercedes never intended to two stop, it wasn't even an option, and either Bottas no longer has any ambition to be champion, or he tried to beat Hamilton couldn't either way RB was closer here than they were in the last two races.
We see on numerous occasions a driver holding up a chasing driver who is ostensibly quicker. It's a skill that any half decent driver must have. Hamilton kept Bottas at bay - it was obvious on the timings. Bottas closed a bit but never got within DRS, then fell back a bit then caught back up, then fell back a bit. That's a driver being kept in check.

If the Mercedes had run and hid, as I'm sure they could have, Bottas would have had a free stop and then a Hungary 2019-style attempt to catch and pass Hamilton. Hamilton wouldn't have been able to react because he had no fresh rubber that would do a third stint longer than about 5 laps. Hamilton had to keep Bottas close enough to Max/the pack to prevent a cheeky undercut.

Of course, if you're a RedBull fan - which I believe you are - then you're not going to like that narrative. It certainly seems an idea closer to the truth than RedBull having found a few tenths of a second of race pace in a week.
So why didn't Hamilton or Bottas just pull away from Verstappen? Again you seem to think Bottas is purely there to fill the second driver seat. If Hamilton was just keeping Bottas at bay I don't understand how with their pace advantage they weren't able to gain that extra pit stop you're selling? Wouldn't it make sense to build as big a gap as possible? It didn't stop Hamilton from doing it last race did it?

"Of course, if you're a Mercedes fan - which I believe you are - then you're not going to like that narrative."

At the end of the day you can imagine all the imaginings you can, but you can't change facts.
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dans79
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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godlameroso wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 06:21
Just_a_fan wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 23:46
godlameroso wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 22:13


So why didn't Bottas try to go faster if he had an extra set of tires? Are you saying that Hamilton was holding up Bottas despite Bottas never being in DRS range at all? I'm not sure I buy what you're selling. The fact is neither Mercedes could build up a gap to give them a free pit stop, no matter what they tried, because they weren't as far ahead of RB as they were in the last two races. Mercedes never intended to two stop, it wasn't even an option, and either Bottas no longer has any ambition to be champion, or he tried to beat Hamilton couldn't either way RB was closer here than they were in the last two races.
We see on numerous occasions a driver holding up a chasing driver who is ostensibly quicker. It's a skill that any half decent driver must have. Hamilton kept Bottas at bay - it was obvious on the timings. Bottas closed a bit but never got within DRS, then fell back a bit then caught back up, then fell back a bit. That's a driver being kept in check.

If the Mercedes had run and hid, as I'm sure they could have, Bottas would have had a free stop and then a Hungary 2019-style attempt to catch and pass Hamilton. Hamilton wouldn't have been able to react because he had no fresh rubber that would do a third stint longer than about 5 laps. Hamilton had to keep Bottas close enough to Max/the pack to prevent a cheeky undercut.

Of course, if you're a RedBull fan - which I believe you are - then you're not going to like that narrative. It certainly seems an idea closer to the truth than RedBull having found a few tenths of a second of race pace in a week.
So why didn't Hamilton or Bottas just pull away from Verstappen? Again you seem to think Bottas is purely there to fill the second driver seat. If Hamilton was just keeping Bottas at bay I don't understand how with their pace advantage they weren't able to gain that extra pit stop you're selling? Wouldn't it make sense to build as big a gap as possible? It didn't stop Hamilton from doing it last race did it?

"Of course, if you're a Mercedes fan - which I believe you are - then you're not going to like that narrative."

At the end of the day you can imagine all the imaginings you can, but you can't change facts.
Have you read and thought about anything several of us have responded to you with?
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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godlameroso wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 06:21
"Of course, if you're a Mercedes fan - which I believe you are - then you're not going to like that narrative."

At the end of the day you can imagine all the imaginings you can, but you can't change facts.
"Of course, if you're a Red Bull fan - which I believe you are - then you're not going to like a different narrative."

At the end of the day you can imagine all the imaginings you can (which is a whole lot on Red Bull team thread), but you can't change facts.

I don't know why you waste so much of energy trying to show that the Red Bull car is closer on race pace to Mercedes, which yields no outcome. This whole exercise of finding race pace difference is complete waste of time due to large variables.

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I think if mercedes pushed harder the "free" stop advantage would be easily possible.
But its mercedes. They play the safe way. They thought the tyres will be ok when they dont push that hard. I mean it was a close thing at the end.

Bottas knowd that if he trys to push more then Hamilton will do the same and also that he will destroy the tyres even more while he is behind a car.

I think its safe to say that mercedes had like half a second per lap or even more in their car and engine. But why you should go to the limit when it seems like its not needed.

Just_a_fan
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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godlameroso wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 06:21

So why didn't Hamilton or Bottas just pull away from Verstappen? Again you seem to think Bottas is purely there to fill the second driver seat. If Hamilton was just keeping Bottas at bay I don't understand how with their pace advantage they weren't able to gain that extra pit stop you're selling? Wouldn't it make sense to build as big a gap as possible? It didn't stop Hamilton from doing it last race did it?

"Of course, if you're a Mercedes fan - which I believe you are - then you're not going to like that narrative."

At the end of the day you can imagine all the imaginings you can, but you can't change facts.
The only person who could benefit from an extra stop was Bottas. He was the only Mercedes driver with a set of new mediums available. If he had got by Hamilton in turn 1, he'd have gone flat out to build a big enough lead to get the free stop. Hamilton wouldn't have been able to follow him because he didn't have the extra tyre available. Therefore, when he was ahead, Hamilton had to stop Bottas from passing him and running off in to the distance. Ergo the cat and mouse game at the front.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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El Scorchio wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 18:07
As for 'not trying' to overtake at the start, I think there's some truth in that- BUT I think there's clearly a gentleman's agreement or rules of engagement that they don't treat each other quite like any other driver on another team, presumably to avoid Hamilton/Rosberg MKII.
I thought it was strange too, but at no point was Bottas actually ahead of Hamilton and Hamilton, being on the outside, could carry more speed into the corner where as Bottas with a more shallow entry would have had to use less speed to make the corner without punting anyone off. This to some degree compromised his position slightly relative to Max after T1.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Phil wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 09:37
El Scorchio wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 18:07
As for 'not trying' to overtake at the start, I think there's some truth in that- BUT I think there's clearly a gentleman's agreement or rules of engagement that they don't treat each other quite like any other driver on another team, presumably to avoid Hamilton/Rosberg MKII.
I thought it was strange too, but at no point was Bottas actually ahead of Hamilton and Hamilton, being on the outside, could carry more speed into the corner where as Bottas with a more shallow entry would have had to use less speed to make the corner without punting anyone off. This to some degree compromised his position slightly relative to Max after T1.
Agree. I think there’s no doubt they are not as aggressive with each other as with other drivers and clearly only go for very clean moves on each other. It’s a different world from Hamilton and Rosberg post Monaco 2014....

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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El Scorchio wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 10:06
Phil wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 09:37
El Scorchio wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 18:07
As for 'not trying' to overtake at the start, I think there's some truth in that- BUT I think there's clearly a gentleman's agreement or rules of engagement that they don't treat each other quite like any other driver on another team, presumably to avoid Hamilton/Rosberg MKII.
I thought it was strange too, but at no point was Bottas actually ahead of Hamilton and Hamilton, being on the outside, could carry more speed into the corner where as Bottas with a more shallow entry would have had to use less speed to make the corner without punting anyone off. This to some degree compromised his position slightly relative to Max after T1.
Agree. I think there’s no doubt they are not as aggressive with each other as with other drivers and clearly only go for very clean moves on each other. It’s a different world from Hamilton and Rosberg post Monaco 2014....
I find this discussion a bit puzzling. People talk about Rosberg and his 'aggression' in 2016 and it was really just him being clumsy. Every time he saw Hamilton in his mirrors he had a panic attack. Austria was awful, Malaysia he passed Raikkonen and was lucky to not have a broken suspension. I think Spain had more to do with Hamilton being impatient and running into Rosberg rather than Rosberg getting his elbows out. He simply blocked the inside and Hamilton had so much more BHP that he could have coasted around the outside.

The race craft between Rosberg and Bottas is more or less similar. Bottas is less likely to crash because he badly wants a contract renewal almost always. The difference between the pair is in speed. Rosberg was as good as Hamilton on Saturday's (by that I mean in a dominant car) and Rosberg didn't have the race pace to pass Hamilton but he would keep him in check and honest. Bottas hasn't a hope on Sunday. Rosberg if ahead after turn 1 could keep it together for the rest of the race 6-7 out of 10 times. Bottas will do it 1-2 times and generally when Hamilton is having some sort of issue.

I will say it as many times as possible and be annoying- Rosberg/Hamilton is the best driver line up in modern day F1 very closely matched by Verstappen and Ricciardo followed by Vettel/Leclerc. I think the sample size on the latter are smaller but the first one is just a slam dunk. Mercedes are also in a cycle where their premiere driver who also happens to be in the top 3 all time list is in the twilight of his career and they have a passenger in the second car with two young guns raring to go for the big time. If Mercedes want to prepare for the future and continue being the excellence and relentlessness personified team in F1, they should put Ocon/Russell in the second seat as soon as next year. Hamilton will put them on a slice of bread with cheese and have either for breakfast if he wishes but it will prepare the other for the future and both are fabulous prospects, specially Russell. 2021 also provides a unique opportunity in the sense that Mercedes know they will win both championships regardless of the driver in the second car.
But, I am dead certain it will be Bottas. I will say it for the nth time- The results Mercedes have achieved have been flattered by Hamilton's brilliance and it won't be there forever.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Schuttelberg wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 16:42
El Scorchio wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 10:06
Phil wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 09:37


I thought it was strange too, but at no point was Bottas actually ahead of Hamilton and Hamilton, being on the outside, could carry more speed into the corner where as Bottas with a more shallow entry would have had to use less speed to make the corner without punting anyone off. This to some degree compromised his position slightly relative to Max after T1.
Agree. I think there’s no doubt they are not as aggressive with each other as with other drivers and clearly only go for very clean moves on each other. It’s a different world from Hamilton and Rosberg post Monaco 2014....
I find this discussion a bit puzzling. People talk about Rosberg and his 'aggression' in 2016 and it was really just him being clumsy. Every time he saw Hamilton in his mirrors he had a panic attack. Austria was awful, Malaysia he passed Raikkonen and was lucky to not have a broken suspension. I think Spain had more to do with Hamilton being impatient and running into Rosberg rather than Rosberg getting his elbows out. He simply blocked the inside and Hamilton had so much more BHP that he could have coasted around the outside.

The race craft between Rosberg and Bottas is more or less similar. Bottas is less likely to crash because he badly wants a contract renewal almost always. The difference between the pair is in speed. Rosberg was as good as Hamilton on Saturday's (by that I mean in a dominant car) and Rosberg didn't have the race pace to pass Hamilton but he would keep him in check and honest. Bottas hasn't a hope on Sunday. Rosberg if ahead after turn 1 could keep it together for the rest of the race 6-7 out of 10 times. Bottas will do it 1-2 times and generally when Hamilton is having some sort of issue.

I will say it as many times as possible and be annoying- Rosberg/Hamilton is the best driver line up in modern day F1 very closely matched by Verstappen and Ricciardo followed by Vettel/Leclerc. I think the sample size on the latter are smaller but the first one is just a slam dunk. Mercedes are also in a cycle where their premiere driver who also happens to be in the top 3 all time list is in the twilight of his career and they have a passenger in the second car with two young guns raring to go for the big time. If Mercedes want to prepare for the future and continue being the excellence and relentlessness personified team in F1, they should put Ocon/Russell in the second seat as soon as next year. Hamilton will put them on a slice of bread with cheese and have either for breakfast if he wishes but it will prepare the other for the future and both are fabulous prospects, specially Russell. 2021 also provides a unique opportunity in the sense that Mercedes know they will win both championships regardless of the driver in the second car.
But, I am dead certain it will be Bottas. I will say it for the nth time- The results Mercedes have achieved have been flattered by Hamilton's brilliance and it won't be there forever.
If by twilight you mean a driver displaying his natural raw speed remains entirely undimmed while retaining and enhancing his unique feel for grip and wet weather skills and adding unparalleled race management and tire nursing skills to his arsenal then sure the "twilight" has a fair few years to run before it fades into darkness.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Schuttelberg wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 16:42
El Scorchio wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 10:06
Phil wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 09:37


I thought it was strange too, but at no point was Bottas actually ahead of Hamilton and Hamilton, being on the outside, could carry more speed into the corner where as Bottas with a more shallow entry would have had to use less speed to make the corner without punting anyone off. This to some degree compromised his position slightly relative to Max after T1.
Agree. I think there’s no doubt they are not as aggressive with each other as with other drivers and clearly only go for very clean moves on each other. It’s a different world from Hamilton and Rosberg post Monaco 2014....
I find this discussion a bit puzzling. People talk about Rosberg and his 'aggression' in 2016 and it was really just him being clumsy. Every time he saw Hamilton in his mirrors he had a panic attack. Austria was awful, Malaysia he passed Raikkonen and was lucky to not have a broken suspension. I think Spain had more to do with Hamilton being impatient and running into Rosberg rather than Rosberg getting his elbows out. He simply blocked the inside and Hamilton had so much more BHP that he could have coasted around the outside.

The race craft between Rosberg and Bottas is more or less similar. Bottas is less likely to crash because he badly wants a contract renewal almost always. The difference between the pair is in speed. Rosberg was as good as Hamilton on Saturday's (by that I mean in a dominant car) and Rosberg didn't have the race pace to pass Hamilton but he would keep him in check and honest. Bottas hasn't a hope on Sunday. Rosberg if ahead after turn 1 could keep it together for the rest of the race 6-7 out of 10 times. Bottas will do it 1-2 times and generally when Hamilton is having some sort of issue.

I will say it as many times as possible and be annoying- Rosberg/Hamilton is the best driver line up in modern day F1 very closely matched by Verstappen and Ricciardo followed by Vettel/Leclerc. I think the sample size on the latter are smaller but the first one is just a slam dunk. Mercedes are also in a cycle where their premiere driver who also happens to be in the top 3 all time list is in the twilight of his career and they have a passenger in the second car with two young guns raring to go for the big time. If Mercedes want to prepare for the future and continue being the excellence and relentlessness personified team in F1, they should put Ocon/Russell in the second seat as soon as next year. Hamilton will put them on a slice of bread with cheese and have either for breakfast if he wishes but it will prepare the other for the future and both are fabulous prospects, specially Russell. 2021 also provides a unique opportunity in the sense that Mercedes know they will win both championships regardless of the driver in the second car.
But, I am dead certain it will be Bottas. I will say it for the nth time- The results Mercedes have achieved have been flattered by Hamilton's brilliance and it won't be there forever.
I think you're slightly missing the point.Hamilton and Rosberg were very aggressive with each other and both initiated contact or moves that would put the other off the track numerous times, sometimes to the detriment of the team. There was animosity and both wanted to beat the other in the worst way possible.

With Hamilton and Bottas it's extremely cordial in comparison and undoubtedly they will race but neither ever puts the other into a bad situation or either car at risk. Best example is Hamilton on the first lap of Baku last year. He had the chance to easily run Bottas wide and pass, but clearly backed out of it slightly. Just like Bottas in the first corner last weekend where the door was definitely half open. If this was Rosberg and Hamilton, both would have undoubtedly gone much more aggressive to get ahead. There is a clearly an agreement after the Rosberg/Hamilton situation to respect the other driver and not put the cars at risk, which so far both drivers seem willing to stick to.

You can make your own conclusions as to why that may be or whether that may change if they came into the final race of the season only a couple of points apart in the standings, but nevertheless I cannot recall a single instance of it getting 'tasty' between them on track which is very unusual for two drivers in their situation, or a single crossed word with or about the other.

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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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El Scorchio wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 17:34
I think you're slightly missing the point.Hamilton and Rosberg were very aggressive with each other and both initiated contact or moves that would put the other off the track numerous times, sometimes to the detriment of the team. There was animosity and both wanted to beat the other in the worst way possible.
Yep, and I think it all started in Malaysia 2013!
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