2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

[GrizzleBoy]

I am confused about which regulation Rosberg is supposed to have broken... there was still room on the outside of the track, so Hamilton was not forced off the track; nothing in the rules say you have to take the apex of the corner. From reading the report, Rosberg is supposed to get out of the way as Hamilton is slightly ahead?

No, he's just supposed to not drive into the side of a car in front of him.

[Restomaniac]

I am confused about which regulation Rosberg is supposed to have broken... there was still room on the outside of the track, so Hamilton was not forced off the track; nothing in the rules say you have to take the apex of the corner. From reading the report, Rosberg is supposed to get out of the way as Hamilton is slightly ahead?

The only room he had was OFF the track.

[nokivasara]

Great race from Grosjean, he is now in top 10 in the overall standings. In front of both McLarens, Toro Rossos, Renaults, Saubers and Manors =D>
That's well done even if some people think that the Haas team got too much for free from Ferrari, they still have made a good job on race day for the most part...

Button had a great weekend, more of that please.

Sauber needs to find a way out of that hole, they have been the best midfield team for so long and now its all tits up for them

[Jolle]

I am confused about which regulation Rosberg is supposed to have broken... there was still room on the outside of the track, so Hamilton was not forced off the track; nothing in the rules say you have to take the apex of the corner. From reading the report, the significant thing is Hamilton is slightly ahead?

The "thy shall not run into a competitor" rule.

With overtaking Rosberg, it looks like wherever you are on track, as far away from the apex as you can or on the opposite side of the race track, he will find you.... He will find you....

[Sonador]

So when Hamilton forces somebody off track it is his right to do so, but when Rosberg attempts to do the same he gets penalized and burnt down to the ground by Hamilton Fans .....
Not a Rosberg fan, not a Hamilton fan either, but this is a bit stange to me.

Can the guy catch a break (or brake, pun intended)?

Rosberg was awesome all race long, he just messed up on the final lap.
He had a knif between the teeth, you guys should laud that he does put up a fight.
He used to be without balls, now he has grown a pair everybody hates him even more.

This article comes to mind:
http://www.formula1blog.com/editorial/l ... u-blunder/

Squeezing someone on the EXIT of a corner after actually making an effort to make the turn (Lewis' tactic), is vastly different from placing your vehicle so that the car IN FRONT cannot proceed without you going into the side of them.

Given that Rosberg was not the car in front, his actions essentially boil up to driving into another car ahead of him. Which is precisely what he did.

He couldn't squeeze Hamilton, because he was not ahead of Hamilton. He instead chose to take a racing line that was occupied by Lewis' car, in front of him.

Imo Rosberg did exactly the same thing as Hamilton did to him in Canada.
Except Hamilton chose not to go wide, where Rosberg did (in Canada) that is how i see it.
The white line is not a wall, he had 2 choices, go wide or turn in.

In this case Rosberg is the loser in this all, because it backfired on his a**.
I wonder what would happen now if Hamilton choses to do a Canada or Austin again on Rosberg ....

[iotar__]

I fail to understand how you can get away with a 10-second time penalty for deliberately driving off track.
These tactics are identical to what Michael Schumacher has pulled off with Villeneuve in 1997, and the only difference there is that it was a championship deciding race.

I think this one, even though the consequences are less, is a far worse issue than what we had at Barcelona. He could claim to be surprised there, but here, it was a simple, deliberate move.
Given the explanation of the stewards, I would think of more severe penalty would be more appropriate.

No, Barcelona was much worse and one sided. Unless you missed Hamilton by himself going off track, losing control of the car and crashing into car in front that couldn't do anything about. Every action that lead towards that was also deliberate unless Hamilton's car was driving by itself. No action as opposed to a penalty here is not surprising?

Hamilton could go off as Rosberg did in USA, Suzuka or even Canada = that's how all those incidents would have looked like had Rosberg stayed on track. All deliberate moves too. I wonder why they punish collisions and not actions that force drivers off. Same as here it was simply a matter of blocking and leaving less space than necessary and yes it happens often. That's also a difference between this one and Schumacher - Villeuneve - avoidable, more side by side part.

If you fail to understand 10 s:
- Perez got 10 s for more (higher speed/corner, cleaner overtake and later stage) in an early '14/15 Malaysia race against Grosjean and I don't recall big discussion about it, do you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjl1ANdYICM
- Verstappen got 5 places grid for one sided crashing into Grosjean in Monaco, deliberate, bad and dangerous driving,

If you fail to understand how you can get away not with 10 s but with no penalties at all for one sided crashes you must have felt like that a lot during previous seasons:
- Raikkonen crashing with Alonso Austria '15 (impossible to avoid) dangerous too
- Raikkonen going off and back on track, crashing and colliding with Massa - Silverstone '14 (impossible to avoid)
- Ricciardo crashing into back of Rosberg in Hungary '15 deliberate and impossible to avoid,
- Alonso - crashing into Gutierrez in Australia '16
- Raikkonen driving with a broken car and colliding with Massa and Grosjean - example that show how bad pointless are stewards' explanations if you care so much about that,
- Vettel rather deliberately driving into Perez in '14 Bahrain practice
- Raikkonen deliberately coming back on track, touching Nasr and sending Maldonado into a wall in Australia '15
and so on... How many examples do you need? All worse and more dangerous than simple side by side blocking off in the corner.So the answer is: if those can be ignored 10 s is not surprising at all by any objective and consistent standards and not by personal preferences.

[nokivasara]

The big difference between Rosberg and Schumacher is that Schumacher did it on purpose, Rosberg doesn't know better for some reason. He does stuff like this impulsively, his history of forcing fellow drivers off track is getting longer and longer.

I can imagine that his "almost done 2 year deal" is a bit further from the table now. This is the second time this season now.

I don't see how that makes sense.
Nico is known for his precision, and you are going to say that all these incidents of his, he has no control over?
If i were to excuse Nico for all the times he had cuased a collision or running off another driver, this one would be the exception. There is no way today's move was not intended to collide with his teammate.

Also why a heavier punishment should be dealt, is the fact that he rammed his teammate. How ruthless do you have to be to do that to someone on the same team? It's worse than hitting another team's car!!
The intent to use one's car as a weapon and cause an accident is what i think should be penalized heavily. The circumstances shouldn't matter once this is established. Safety of all drivers on track is important; and for all we know Hamilton's car could have flipped upon impact.

Rosberg is indeed a very precise driver, calculated and takes a methodical approach to the car on the track. But, when someone is trying to overtake him (from memory, Alonso few years ago in Bahrain, Hamilton in England somewhere in 2011 or 2012 and of course Barcelona) he doesn't know what to do (you can't calculate it in advance) and he pushes the opponent off track in some (unintended) desperate action. It's the same reason why he's less excellent in changing circumstances then someone like Hamilton (like a sudden change of wind or a wet track)
He is as fast as most top drivers (I believe they all are within almost nothing) but the big difference comes when you have to take quick actions. It's almost like Rosberg needs all his talent/brainpower to go fast, while guys like Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso have some to spare to race each other.

Yes, he runs out of talent when he has a competitor alongside him.
He lacks racecraft.
Or maybe he just likes to play it dirty, Schumi did these kind of stunts all the time and he sure had talent left to fence off overtakers!

[GrandAxe]

So Toto Wolff is blaming both drivers even though the stewards solely blame Rosberg

translation:
"You need two to have contact. I don't think you can see it in black and white. Nico tried to brake late with a handicapped car. Maybe he wasn't on the normal racing line. And Lewis came from the outside when the first contact happened. Each time you watch the video you get new info. You can't clearly say who's more to blame than the other."

original:
"Es braucht zwei, um einen Kontakt zustande zu bringen. Ich glaube nicht, dass man es schwarz und weiß sehen kann. Nico hat mit einem Auto, das ein Handicap hatte, versucht, spät zu bremsen. Dabei war er vielleicht nicht auf der normalen Ideallinie. Und Lewis kam von außen, als der erste Kontakt entstand. Jedes Mal, wenn man sich die Videos anschaut, gibt es neue Informationen. Man kann nicht klar sagen, wer mehr Schuld hat als der andere."

Toto Wolff is in a single participant idiots contest. He has to be the worst ever F1 boss.

[jurinius]

Well they have set a bad precedent with a harmless 10s penalty.
Now drivers can start punting other cars off the track purposely once they know the other guy gets zero points and they only get 10 seconds added on to their race time.

I wouldn't bet any money (and much less risk a good result) on that assumption!
In case of a similar incident between cars from different teams and/or with inverse outcome (In this case Karma had a sense of justice -which is unfortunately not always the case or rather in most cases it is not) might bring different results.

Nico needs to get his emotions under control. Lewis is doing these things much more subtle and clever. If Nico tries it it always looks desperate and clumsy. And he doesn't know when to retreat from a move or brings himself in a position where he doesn't leave himself the option to do so. That is the difference to the top guys like Lewis or Seb. They drive hard, but their moves are predictable and tend to leave the other and themselves time to retreat and the option to do so. Nicos moves are always sudden and surprising and in most cases leave no options for either side. That is why they end in tears so often. They are emotive and committed moves and not purposeful tactical bullying (what Lewis and Seb are doing an where Schumi was a real master in). Nico definitely needs a psycho- trainer.

+1 =D>

[Jolle]

I don't see how that makes sense.
Nico is known for his precision, and you are going to say that all these incidents of his, he has no control over?
If i were to excuse Nico for all the times he had cuased a collision or running off another driver, this one would be the exception. There is no way today's move was not intended to collide with his teammate.

Also why a heavier punishment should be dealt, is the fact that he rammed his teammate. How ruthless do you have to be to do that to someone on the same team? It's worse than hitting another team's car!!
The intent to use one's car as a weapon and cause an accident is what i think should be penalized heavily. The circumstances shouldn't matter once this is established. Safety of all drivers on track is important; and for all we know Hamilton's car could have flipped upon impact.

Rosberg is indeed a very precise driver, calculated and takes a methodical approach to the car on the track. But, when someone is trying to overtake him (from memory, Alonso few years ago in Bahrain, Hamilton in England somewhere in 2011 or 2012 and of course Barcelona) he doesn't know what to do (you can't calculate it in advance) and he pushes the opponent off track in some (unintended) desperate action. It's the same reason why he's less excellent in changing circumstances then someone like Hamilton (like a sudden change of wind or a wet track)
He is as fast as most top drivers (I believe they all are within almost nothing) but the big difference comes when you have to take quick actions. It's almost like Rosberg needs all his talent/brainpower to go fast, while guys like Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso have some to spare to race each other.

Yes, he runs out of talent when he has a competitor alongside him.
He lacks racecraft.
Or maybe he just likes to play it dirty, Schumi did these kind of stunts all the time and he sure had talent left to fence off overtakers!

Tactics vs incompetence. Always the discussion.

With Senna -Prost Suzuka '90 it was clear, that was tactics. This was incompetence.

[ringo]

Imo Rosberg did exactly the same thing as Hamilton did to him in Canada.
Except Hamilton chose not to go wide, where Rosberg did (in Canada) that is how i see it.
The white line is not a wall, he had 2 choices, go wide or turn in.

In this case Rosberg is the loser in this all, because it backfired on his a**.
I wonder what would happen now if Hamilton choses to do a Canada or Austin again on Rosberg ....

Rosberg is just not good at being on the edge of the rules. And no Rosberg does not do exactly what Hamilton does. I've never seen lewis miss an apex to impede another driver.
Also please take into account the shape of the turn. Hamilton uses that to dictate how to defend; rosberg doesn't and comes of in breach of the rules.

I sort of get the feeling those in favour of Rosberg want him to do harm or "teach a lesson" to Hamilton. I don't think that is sportsmanlike. Rosberg should quit while he is ahead. After trying to be the bad boy on track it has always left him losing out. It's best if he tries to get on Hamilton's level and teach Lewis a lesson from race craft and speed, and not dirty guttersnipe driving.
This season hasn't shown much direct competition between the two, it's mostly Lewis vs. Mercedes strategy and reliability. And when we do have a race on our hands, Rosberg fades and resorts to dirty driving. I hope we have proper competition in the following races; as Rosberg will not be champion with his current approach to stopping Lewis.

[Restomaniac]

Does anyone remember the Spanish GP, when most wondered exactly where Nico was going when Hamilton was steaming up on him and Rosberg was in the wrong engine mode which meant he well down on power?
That was when we were told Rosberg wouldn't ever push Hamilton off the track on purpose.

[GrizzleBoy]

So when Hamilton forces somebody off track it is his right to do so, but when Rosberg attempts to do the same he gets penalized and burnt down to the ground by Hamilton Fans .....
Not a Rosberg fan, not a Hamilton fan either, but this is a bit stange to me.

Can the guy catch a break (or brake, pun intended)?

Rosberg was awesome all race long, he just messed up on the final lap.
He had a knif between the teeth, you guys should laud that he does put up a fight.
He used to be without balls, now he has grown a pair everybody hates him even more.

This article comes to mind:
http://www.formula1blog.com/editorial/l ... u-blunder/

Squeezing someone on the EXIT of a corner after actually making an effort to make the turn (Lewis' tactic), is vastly different from placing your vehicle so that the car IN FRONT cannot proceed without you going into the side of them.

Given that Rosberg was not the car in front, his actions essentially boil up to driving into another car ahead of him. Which is precisely what he did.

He couldn't squeeze Hamilton, because he was not ahead of Hamilton. He instead chose to take a racing line that was occupied by Lewis' car, in front of him.

Imo Rosberg did exactly the same thing as Hamilton did to him in Canada.
Except Hamilton chose not to go wide, where Rosberg did (in Canada) that is how i see it.
The white line is not a wall, he had 2 choices, go wide or turn in.

In this case Rosberg is the loser in this all, because it backfired on his a**.
I wonder what would happen now if Hamilton choses to do a Canada or Austin again on Rosberg ....

In Canada, Lewis was ahead, made the corner (aka passed the apex) and squeezed on corner exit, which is legal to do. Youll see drivers using that move all throughout a grand prix.

In Austria, Ros was behind, made no attempt to actually make the turn and attempted to "squeeze" a car in front of him by literally blocking him to make him go straight on. In the middle of a corner.

Since Ros was the car BEHIND, his actions led to him crashing into the car AHEAD of him.

He wasn't the car ahead that was squeezing, he was the car behind that divebombed the car ahead off the road.

Crucial difference to probably anything Lewis has done vs Nico in recent memory.

[Sonador]

Imo Rosberg did exactly the same thing as Hamilton did to him in Canada.
Except Hamilton chose not to go wide, where Rosberg did (in Canada) that is how i see it.
The white line is not a wall, he had 2 choices, go wide or turn in.

In this case Rosberg is the loser in this all, because it backfired on his a**.
I wonder what would happen now if Hamilton choses to do a Canada or Austin again on Rosberg ....

Rosberg is just not good at being on the edge of the rules. And no Rosberg does not do exactly what Hamilton does. I've never seen lewis miss an apex to impede another driver.
Also please take into account the shape of the turn. Hamilton uses that to dictate how to defend; rosberg doesn't and comes of in breach of the rules.

I sort of get the feeling those in favour of Rosberg want him to do harm or "teach a lesson" to Hamilton. I don't think that is sportsmanlike. Rosberg should quit while he is ahead. After trying to be the bad boy on track it has always left him losing out. It's best if he tries to get on Hamilton's level and teach Lewis a lesson from race craft and speed, and not dirty guttersnipe driving.
This season hasn't shown much direct competition between the two, it's mostly Lewis vs. Mercedes strategy and reliability. And when we do have a race on our hands, Rosberg fades and resorts to dirty driving. I hope we have proper competition in the following races; as Rosberg will not be champion with his current approach to stopping Lewis.

There is no doubt that Hamilton is the better racedriver.

With Rosberg, you could see already against Schumacher when they were teammates that he was lacking in racecraft (one lap pace was exceptionel).

But i refuse to believe he was out to teach somebody a lesson or would cause harm.
I also do not see the dirty guttersnipe unspotsmanlike driving you mention.
It lacks finnesse, something Hamilton has in spades, to that i would agree.

I stand by what i said earlier, that it lackes the Hamilton finnesse that is true

[Sonador]

Squeezing someone on the EXIT of a corner after actually making an effort to make the turn (Lewis' tactic), is vastly different from placing your vehicle so that the car IN FRONT cannot proceed without you going into the side of them.

Given that Rosberg was not the car in front, his actions essentially boil up to driving into another car ahead of him. Which is precisely what he did.

He couldn't squeeze Hamilton, because he was not ahead of Hamilton. He instead chose to take a racing line that was occupied by Lewis' car, in front of him.

Imo Rosberg did exactly the same thing as Hamilton did to him in Canada.
Except Hamilton chose not to go wide, where Rosberg did (in Canada) that is how i see it.
The white line is not a wall, he had 2 choices, go wide or turn in.

In this case Rosberg is the loser in this all, because it backfired on his a**.
I wonder what would happen now if Hamilton choses to do a Canada or Austin again on Rosberg ....

In Canada, Lewis was ahead, made the corner (aka passed the apex) and squeezed on corner exit, which is legal to do. Youll see drivers using that move all throughout a grand prix.

In Austria, Ros was behind, made no attempt to actually make the turn and attempted to "squeeze" a car in front of him by literally blocking him to make him go straight on. In the middle of a corner.

Since Ros was the car BEHIND, his actions led to him crashing into the car AHEAD of him.

He wasn't the car ahead that was squeezing, he was the car behind that divebombed the car ahead off the road.

Crucial difference to probably anything Lewis has done vs Nico in recent memory.

Shouting your opinion a couple of times, will not change my opinion ...
I see it differently.