Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

[raymondu999]

He should know better than that. He should know only Kobayashi can outbrake from 3 miles back.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90288

Rubens blames tyres for his collision, and says he never went for a hole. Id say thats a little twisting of the truth.

It is always the case with Rubens. Hungary 2010 was no different. There was no space to pass Michael on the inside without Michael changing his line, which he did too late. But Rubens made an overly optimistic move then as well as today.

[flixfe]

Rubens blames tyres for his collision, and says he never went for a hole. Id say thats a little twisting of the truth.

The onboard shot shows that Rubens used KERS on the second half of the straight (i.e. just before he went for the non-existant gap) so in my view that was a clear over-take attempt.

Also I'm wondering why Rubens did not use the KERS on the beginning of the straight because that would (a) get him a stronger tow from Nico and (b) the speed advantage for a longer period of time.

Conclusion: It was a last-second decision in favor of the overtake. It was wrong but maybe inspired by his prior successfull move on Kobayashi at the same spot.

[bill shoe]

Just replayed it on the BBC F1 Forum and confirmed that Vettel had all 4 wheels off track despite the rules being strengthened this year saying that at least one wheel must remain on the circuit at all times.

This Vettel situation is a clear case of rules inconsistency.

Remember the infamous Hamilton penalty at Spa 2 or 3 years ago? He cut a corner when Kimi took him wide, then Hamilton rejoined on the straight at a lower speed than Kimi, then proceeded to catch up to and pass Kimi going into the next corner. He was penalized for leaving the track because it took place at the corner preceding the pass, i.e. this was considered leaving the track to make a pass.

So this established a zone of plus/minus one turn relative to the pass location in which the passing driver must stay on the track. Therefore, the passing driver must logically stay on track for those 3 consecutive corners for the pass to be legit.

Since that Spa incedent there has been no weakening of that precedent, and in fact this year, as myurr and others mentioned, the rules have been made explicitly more strict.

Vettel's lap 16 pass of Button clearly did not comply with the Spa precedent. It did not even comply with staying on track in the direct vicinity of the pass, and I give Vettel the benefit of the doubt for that conclusion: If he could not complete the pass and stay on track, then leaving the track must have been significant to the entire action of making the pass.

This is not an anti-Vettel or Red Bull comment, I'm just noticing that the FIA can't consistently determine what its rules mean.

[Formula None]

Three driver's notably drove beyond the white lines in this race. One was punished.

Button & Massa outside of the lines:



Vettel outside:

[timbo]

This is not an anti-Vettel or Red Bull comment, I'm just noticing that the FIA can't consistently determine what its rules mean.

Cutting track (i.e. going over shorter path) was always deemed more serious infringement.

[Mandrake]

There's a difference in whether you cut the corner on the inside or on the outside. Going round the outside in that turn makes you travel further and not less, as it would by cutting the inside. Additionally, the pass was completed before they really entered the corner.

The rules on this might not be a 100% clear and understandable, but even in Spa, all 4 wheels off in the first corner (on the outside) is not regarded as cutting!

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

This is not an anti-Vettel or Red Bull comment, I'm just noticing that the FIA can't consistently determine what its rules mean.

I agree and todays race was another showcase of the hopelessly amateuristic stewarding of an F1 race, wich supposed to be the best of all. Todts presidency also promised to be better than under Mosley but actually Id rather have Mosley back.

Right now they beat the little teams/drivers but rarely get into action on infringements from the big teams unless its that obvious.

Together with the laughable server capacity or the very outdated timing info on F1.com, maybe ill sit out the next race and do some gardening.

[vall]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90288

Rubens blames tyres for his collision, and says he never went for a hole. Id say thats a little twisting of the truth.

It is always the case with Rubens. Hungary 2010 was no different. There was no space to pass Michael on the inside without Michael changing his line, which he did too late. But Rubens made an overly optimistic move then as well as today.

let me disagree about Hungary 2010? MS clearly changed his line but to close the space and block Rubens! It was miles different with the crash with Rosberg. Nico just followed his line and overly-ambitious Rubens crashed into him.

[Just_a_fan]

I think, in defence of Massa, that the white line goes out to the 90deg corner, not in a curve so he was inside the white lines (except for the usual outer wheels on the kerb).

[vall]

There's a difference in whether you cut the corner on the inside or on the outside. Going round the outside in that turn makes you travel further and not less, as it would by cutting the inside. Additionally, the pass was completed before they really entered the corner.

The rules on this might not be a 100% clear and understandable, but even in Spa, all 4 wheels off in the first corner (on the outside) is not regarded as cutting!

If the pass was complete before the corner, then it counts as an off-track excursion.

[myurr]

Actually the rules are clear, a minimum of 1 wheel inside the track at any given time.

The overtake wasn't complete by that corner as demonstrated by the fact that he couldn't keep it on the circuit. You could easily argue that he only pulled ahead of Button because he slowed so that he could make the corner whereas Vettel didn't slow anywhere near enough.

[Just_a_fan]

If the only way to make the pass stick was to go off track then surely it is relevant? If staying in the confines of the white lines means a driver has to back off etc. and is then able to be retaken by the other driver then he has gained an advantage.

Not sure if this is relevant here though - I haven't reviewed the incident so can't recall the detail. I have no doubt we'll all have this sort of discussion again throughout the season...

[Tamburello]

Two are making the track shorter (Hamilton at Spa and Button in Melbourne) and the other is making the track longer (Vettel at Albert Park). End of story.

[Tamburello]

IIRC, Rubens had all four wheels off track as well to make that pass on Schumacher stick in Hungary last year.