2017 F1 engine dream configs

[Blanchimont]

gruntguru, how do you then explain the need to raise the minimum weight from 605kg to 642kg to 691kg to 702kg?
Why did some teams choose not to use KERS when it first was allowed?
Why don't we see all LMP1 teams in WEC participate in the 8MJ class?

[dren]

I think you'd see more teams utilizing it if the regulations were 100% open aside from the fuel flow limit.

Another question you could ask is: Why did some teams choose -to- use KERS when it was first allowed? And this was when the technology was new and presumably at its heaviest.

[Blanchimont]

Well, obviously those teams using it were that much below the minimum weight limit that they could afford to replace some of the ballast with the KERS "ballast" and still stay under the minimum weight limit and get the desired weight distribution. The more important question is why did BMW and Renault use KERS at the beginning of the 2009 season but ditched the system in the middle of the season?

For 2010 the teams agreed not to use KERS only to reintroduce KERS in 2011 with a minimum weight increased by 20kg.

Could it be that Mercedes was simply afraid a non-hybrid car could beat their expensive hybrid and they were not able to advertise as a consequence?

Dren, as you say, i'd love to see open regs. Set the minimum weight to 600kg and then let's find out what the best configuration is. A 600kg car with 650hp and no energy recovery, a 650kg car with 650hp and 75hp recovered or a 700kg with 650hp plus 160hp or any other possible combination? My bet would be on the first version because of the reasons i gave on the last page.

[kooleracer]

The ideal 2017 engine configuration is:
- No fuel flow limit
- 50kg fuel maximum on board, refueling allowed. But DTM fuel rig system, so safety is guaranteed. No minimum fuel allocation for race start. Teams can choose how much kg they want to start with.
- 1.6L V6 Bi-turbo with MGU-K 4MJ battery unlimited use of K/battery during lap , drop the MGU-H.
- max turbo pressure 5.0 bar.
- max weight for car: 650kg
- max RPM 15.000
- Max of 5 engines per year
- Max price for engine 15m dollar.
- Engine development with tokens system. But all parts of the engine can be changed. Manufacturers will get opportunity the change half of the parts of the engine every year. No updates during the season.

You do realise your formula is a 1,500 hp engine plus KERS don't you?

Maybe during qualifiying, but not during the race. If they would use that engine mode they would have to pit numerous times for fuel and imagine the engine wouldn't last 4 races. I forget to mention KERS should weigh 20kg min and has max output of 120kW. Maybe 650kg is a bit to ambitious. Lets say keep the minimum weight at 700kg, also for the sake of the drivers.

[Pingguest]

Here's is a radical idea: abolish all engine regulations, keep the refueling ban and dramatically reduce grip.

[gruntguru]

The ideal 2017 engine configuration is:
- No fuel flow limit
- 50kg fuel maximum on board, refueling allowed. But DTM fuel rig system, so safety is guaranteed. No minimum fuel allocation for race start. Teams can choose how much kg they want to start with.
- 1.6L V6 Bi-turbo with MGU-K 4MJ battery unlimited use of K/battery during lap , drop the MGU-H.
- max turbo pressure 5.0 bar.
- max weight for car: 650kg
- max RPM 15.000
- Max of 5 engines per year
- Max price for engine 15m dollar.
- Engine development with tokens system. But all parts of the engine can be changed. Manufacturers will get opportunity the change half of the parts of the engine every year. No updates during the season.

You do realise your formula is a 1,500 hp engine plus KERS don't you?

Maybe during qualifiying, but not during the race.

What - not even if it creates an overtaking opportunity? Not even if needed to defend a position? This is a prescription for a fuel economy event.

[kooleracer]

@Gruntguru

Why do you say that? In the refueling era all races were sprint races. Some choosing to do a 2 stop and some even a 4 stop (Schumacher French GP 2004). I don't understand your argument, can you please elaborate? We now have a fuel economy based race, with the 100kg limit. Or have i missed something, all we here is cost and lift and the race engineers instructing to driver were to save fuel. Why would you save fuel if you only have 50kg of fuel and when you know need to stop 2 or 3 times because 50kg will never bring you to the end of the race and a 100kg could become really tight. You would be better of doing 3 quick stints, while others may choose the do 2 economy runs. The race will decide which one is the fastest, me and you can't say that based on an engine formula.

[dren]

I don't think we'll see refueling again due to safety reasons.

[dren]

Here's is a radical idea: abolish all engine regulations, keep the refueling ban and dramatically reduce grip.

You could force flat floors with no diffuser, ban wings, use tires that are like hard plastic. That'd be interesting.

If the engine regulations were 100% open with no fuel flow limits, where would the teams end up? High revving V10s?

[langwadt]

You do realise your formula is a 1,500 hp engine plus KERS don't you?

Maybe during qualifiying, but not during the race.

What - not even if it creates an overtaking opportunity? Not even if needed to defend a position? This is a prescription for a fuel economy event.

Think it would be like the opposite of DRS making overtaking impossible, every place there is a possibility of overtaking
the engine in turned up to 11, there rest of the lap block and save fuel

[wuzak]

Here's is a radical idea: abolish all engine regulations, keep the refueling ban and dramatically reduce grip.

You could force flat floors with no diffuser, ban wings, use tires that are like hard plastic. That'd be interesting.

If the engine regulations were 100% open with no fuel flow limits, where would the teams end up? High revving V10s?

No, they'd likely be turbos, possibly with some ERS.

Providing they could be kept down to the same weight, the current V6s would have a significant advantage in fuel required for a race.

[gruntguru]

@Gruntguru
Why do you say that? In the refueling era all races were sprint races. Some choosing to do a 2 stop and some even a 4 stop (Schumacher French GP 2004). I don't understand your argument, can you please elaborate? We now have a fuel economy based race, with the 100kg limit. Or have i missed something, all we here is cost and lift and the race engineers instructing to driver were to save fuel. Why would you save fuel if you only have 50kg of fuel and when you know need to stop 2 or 3 times because 50kg will never bring you to the end of the race and a 100kg could become really tight. You would be better of doing 3 quick stints, while others may choose the do 2 economy runs. The race will decide which one is the fastest, me and you can't say that based on an engine formula.

Sorry - had to re-read your proposed formula. When you said 1500 hp would only be used in qualy I assumed you had proposed a race fuel limit (which you had not). I will re-word my reply.

"Your proposed formula will result in engines with reliable 1500 hp for race and qualifying."

[dren]

No, they'd likely be turbos, possibly with some ERS.

Providing they could be kept down to the same weight, the current V6s would have a significant advantage in fuel required for a race.

Yes, good point. Probably something along the lines we saw years ago with qualifying monsters and more fuel efficient race units. It'd be a fuel weight vs power for the race.

[powertrain]

Personally I think the engine size is just about right with turbo and stored
Energy From the recovery systems is adequate. I the fuel flow is the only impractical thing in its whole layout. today we've got possibly the best high performance engines in the world equipped with duel energy recovery systems. All these Powertrains need is the fuel flow altered as think these engines are the future of F1.

[Nicholas Spillett]

I joined this forum to post this instead of just lurking - why not limit the engines on "carbon footprint" per race and allow a range of different fuels to be used? Basically you can build whatever wonder engine you dream up, and you don't have to worry about flow sensors or boost sensors or other things that are easily tampered with on a multi million dollar engineering project on wheels.