Has Red Bull pissed away the WC?

[marcush.]

oops .WB you are right ..the Bulls are still fragile but have a bit more luck in the race lately (webbers oil pump thing an exception)...

I feel ferrari and Macs will be better suited to Spa than to hungary.. that was my point.
Plus REDBULL might have to reintroduce some old wings due to scrutineering issues in spa,that was my idea.

[747heavy]

maybe we add disfunctional radio to the list

Just kidding ....
Hope you guys have a great day

[marcush.]

yeah thanks..

the twisty wings definitively have catched my attention...

btw ..in one of the papers I found on the web someone who experimented with variable camber wings found out that latex cloth was contributing to their good aero performances due to it low amplitude but high frequency vibration under testloads delaying separation..so maybe f1 teams should reconsider some of their surface construction maybe?? unfortunatelly surface friction also increased..

[segedunum]

Nevertheless, the Red Bulls are not no longer pulling off to the side of the track and retiring as they were.

I doubt whether Red Bull will have to change their front wings. The scrutineering change is based on a knee jerk and panic reaction from McLaren and Mercedes based on what they speculate might be happening.

[DaveKillens]

Huh? We just passed the half-way point of the season and this speculation comes up? Isn't this a bit premature and more of a case of trolling?

[donskar]

Dave, 65 posts -- trolling?

I see your point, it is far too early. But this is a somewhat unusual season, with one car so clearly superior on the stopwatch -- but not at all on the scoreboard.

It's a fair question if one assumes that RBR might or might not turn around their problems with reliability, and tactics, and driver relationships. If those problems had been addressed prseason, RBR would now be beyond catching. As it is, clearly inferior cars have a fair chance at winning the WDC and WCC. Adds a bit of spice to the season.

[andrew]

First thing I notice on this thread is, should the title be changed to say WDC rather than WC? The WC tends to be the smallest room in the house. Just a thought.

To serious matters, I would agree that this is maybe a bit early to have a thread like this. Look at Ferrari's turn around over the last 2 races. Darn reds proved me wrong! I thought they had had it.

I don't think Red Bull have pissed away anything - yet, but the management has pissed off team members it would seem. I think they need to focus on one drivers rather than having a free-for-all. I don't like it but that's the pnly way to move forward to win the championships.

[mr moda]

incredibly RedBulls technical issues are gone ..

That is actually not true. Red Bull published on Sunday that Sebastian Vettel's starting problems at the British and German GP were caused by an electrical glitch of the steering wheel. The issue was reported on German Sky television by Mark Surer. It has cost Sebastian and the team 25 points if I'm counting right.

This is the list so far:

• spark plug failure in Bahrain
• loose wheel in Australia
• broken brake disk in Barcelona
• defect chassis in Monaco
• broken rear suspension linkage and wishbone in Turkey
• leaking gear box in Montreal
• collapsed nose box and steering wheel electrical glitch in Silverstone
• steering wheel glitch in Germany

Without those problems Seb could have had 75-100 points more. The accident in Turkey had most likely never happened as the grid order had been reversed.

In Germany Mark Webber had a problem with his oil pump which may have cost him a couple of points. He also had a gearbox problem in Montreal which set him back 5 places on the grid.

Whist I dont disagree with the above list I would offer that the majority of teams have small glitches every race that are not published. These glitches may or may not effect the results of the car and therefore to say Vettel could be 75 - 100 points more than his current total is extremely subjective at best.

[WhiteBlue]

This is the list so far:

• spark plug failure in Bahrain (13 points)
• loose wheel in Australia (25 points)
• broken brake disk in Barcelona (3 points)
• defect chassis in Monaco (7 points)
• broken rear suspension linkage and wishbone in Turkey (25 points)
• leaking gear box in Montreal (3 points)
• collapsed nose box in Silverstone
• steering wheel glitch in Germany (10 points)

Without those problems Seb could have had 73 points more. The accident in Turkey had most likely never happened as the grid order had been reversed. Seb was the faster driver in Turkey and Mark Webber had never got the opportunity to get in front and create the accident scenario by holding him back.

In Germany Mark Webber had a problem with his oil pump which may have cost him a couple of points. He also had a gearbox problem in Montreal which set him back 5 places on the grid.

We can now add Korea to the list. An engine failure 9 laps before the end of the race cost Seb an almost certain race win. Sebastian had qualified on pole and led the race from start to his engine failure with plenty of performance in hand to pull away in three restarts.

The tally is now 98 points in my book.

[xpensive]

Whist I dont disagree with the above list I would offer that the majority of teams have small glitches every race that are not published. These glitches may or may not effect the results of the car and therefore to say Vettel could be 75 - 100 points more than his current total is extremely subjective at best.

Bear in mind moda, points considered as "lost" should perhaps be regarded in the light of being self-inflicted or not?

[marcush.]

points not scored is also others scoring more than they would have if the mishap did not happen!So double whammy...as everytime RedBull dropped the ball it was either Macs
or Ferrari profiting...

[zeph]

WB, you need to approach Vettel about a job as his publicist. You are truly second to none!

[donskar]

This is the list so far:

• spark plug failure in Bahrain (13 points)
• loose wheel in Australia (25 points)
• broken brake disk in Barcelona (3 points)
• defect chassis in Monaco (7 points)
• broken rear suspension linkage and wishbone in Turkey (25 points)
• leaking gear box in Montreal (3 points)
• collapsed nose box in Silverstone
• steering wheel glitch in Germany (10 points)

Without those problems Seb could have had 73 points more. The accident in Turkey had most likely never happened as the grid order had been reversed. Seb was the faster driver in Turkey and Mark Webber had never got the opportunity to get in front and create the accident scenario by holding him back.

In Germany Mark Webber had a problem with his oil pump which may have cost him a couple of points. He also had a gearbox problem in Montreal which set him back 5 places on the grid.

We can now add Korea to the list. An engine failure 9 laps before the end of the race cost Seb an almost certain race win. Sebastian had qualified on pole and led the race from start to his engine failure with plenty of performance in hand to pull away in three restarts.

The tally is now 98 points in my book.

And this all means . . . what?

-- RBR is secretly undermining Vettel?
-- Vettel abuses his equipment and pays the price for that abuse??
-- Vettel committed heinous crimes in another life and is now paying for them?
-- Webber's sub rosa minions are sabotaging Vettel's car?
-- You are obsessed with Vettel?
-- Nothing at all?

[andartop]

The tally is now 98 points in my book.

Maybe Rubens and you should try to approach the same publisher for your books!

[WhiteBlue]

The meaning should be fairly clear. Sebastian Vettel is the faster of the two Red Bull drivers who has the most pole positions in qualifying but this is not reflected in his points standing compared to Webber. To explain the difference one can look at DNFs and point loss due to driver error and lack of reliability.

Webber and Vettel have similar point accounts in terms of mistakes.
Webber and Vettel have completely different point accounts in terms of reliability misses.

This explains why the slower of the two Red Bull drivers is ahead in the championship. If one takes only those cases when Vettel lost points due to technical failures while leading the race you see that he lost 64 points. Webber did not loose a single point due to defects while leading a race.

If the Red Bull car had the reliability that one expects from a WCC car those points had not been lost. The car must not fail because a driver is driving it as fast as it will go.

Conclusion: Red Bull has pissed Vettel's WDC away if someone else wins it in 2010 and they know it.