2013 Belgian GP - Spa

[iotar__]

Alonso is still doing a lot better than Ferrari in the odds. I personally also think that Alonso is better than Ferrari and that he is depressed about that. When will he ever get a car that worth his talent and personal performance?

Agreed. His best shot was in 2010 and it has been downhill ever since. Hard not to lose heart in that situation.

I disagree, 2012 was equally good chance, car slower but season more competitive, without McLaren's unreliability (Singapore) we would have had unsettled Vettel much earlier, under pressure Vettel is the one making mistakes like in Brazil and USA. Plus potentially three horse race.

This season: it's easy to forget DNF in Malaysia and DRS problems in Bahrain, lost points when Ferrari was much more competitive, only partially equalised by Vettel's Silverstone DNF.

On topic: Maldonado's penalty too harsh, clumsy but run of the mill, bunch of cars following incident, I still don't understand how was that different to reversed Rosberg-Massa Hungary for example. Not only drive-through but 10s stop and go? Chilton's in Monaco was much worse.

[Shrieker]

I think Merc and RBR took a gamble, merc took the wet setup, rbr took the ultra-low df dry setup, and for merc the gamble didn't pay off. I hope in monza they will decide ultra-low df.

I don't get this. If they had an ultra low df setup, then surely their speed at Eau Rouge should've suffered ? They were the fastest round Eau Rouge all weekend easily. I think everyone was on low df wing setups but Red Bull's underbody simply creates that much more downforce to make the difference.

[raymondu999]

I think Merc and RBR took a gamble, merc took the wet setup, rbr took the ultra-low df dry setup, and for merc the gamble didn't pay off. I hope in monza they will decide ultra-low df.

I don't get this. If they had an ultra low df setup, then surely their speed at Eau Rouge should've suffered ? They were the fastest round Eau Rouge all weekend easily. I think everyone was on low df wing setups but Red Bull's underbody simply creates that much more downforce to make the difference.

I don't think downforce makes an ounce of difference to your speed through Eau Rouge nowadays - cars have enough downforce to take it flat even with Monza wings on I'd think.

[Just_a_fan]

Eau Rouge / Raidillon isn't an issue these days - it's flat in just about any F1 car so a bit less overall downforce isn't so much of an issue. And the speed gain down from T1 and up on to Kemmel more than make up for any slight drop in apex speed anyway.

Note: Eau Rouge is just the relatively simple left bend at the bottom of the dip. It's Raidillon that's the uphill right and cresting left combination.

[SectorOne]

Sean Edwards took it flat in the new Cup Porsche. The first guy to do that. So yes, Eau Rouge is easy peasy lemon squeazy these days.
Pouhon is the last real man´s corner in SPA.

It wasn't the package. It was setup. If you watched Q3 you may remember that they pulled both Mercs into the garage for wing adjustment during the session. That hurt them in the race. If they had done it the way Ferrari did it Alonso would not have made it to the podium. So it was not by Ferrari's strength that he got there but by Mercedes's screw up.

I don´t think it would have done much difference to be honest. They went with a Med DF pack which really puts you at a disadvantage whether it´s wet or dry. You are bound to lose out to someone.

The only real reason they went with this package was because of the weather i think.

[Juzh]

I disagree, 2012 was equally good chance, car slower but season more competitive, without McLaren's unreliability (Singapore) we would have had unsettled Vettel much earlier, under pressure Vettel is the one making mistakes like in Brazil and USA. Plus potentially three horse race.

Mistake in the usa? You call getting blocked in high speed section by a moving chickane a mistake? Had he not been blocked hamilton never would have gotten passed him.

[aral]

And how many other cars were set up for the same conditions?

[Mika1]

And how many other cars were set up for the same conditions?

Red Bull not.

Hopefully Merc's Monza package will be better.

[LionKing]

I disagree, 2012 was equally good chance, car slower but season more competitive, without McLaren's unreliability (Singapore) we would have had unsettled Vettel much earlier, under pressure Vettel is the one making mistakes like in Brazil and USA. Plus potentially three horse race.

Mistake in the usa? You call getting blocked in high speed section by a moving chickane a mistake? Had he not been blocked hamilton never would have gotten passed him.

In any case, Vettel did not make as costly a mistake as Alonso did at Suzuka last year whole season...

[sennafan24]

I disagree, 2012 was equally good chance, car slower but season more competitive, without McLaren's unreliability (Singapore) we would have had unsettled Vettel much earlier, under pressure Vettel is the one making mistakes like in Brazil and USA. Plus potentially three horse race.

In any case, Vettel did not make as costly a mistake as Alonso did at Suzuka last year whole season...

What is next in this debate? "My Dad can have your Dad in a fight"

Jesus Christ

[Overdriving]

Great drive by Vettel. That kid absolutely crushed his rivals' morale I see.

Still gutted for Kimi.

[munudeges]

He was coming through quite nicely was Kimi, running longer and passing people on older tyres. But, he's had a long run of points finishes and it had to come to an end some time.

[Juzh]

The only real change apart from balance from start to finish is fuel.... I wonder if they are simply not at a disadvantage to Renault engines who are said to be much more fuel efficient = less fuel to start with.

They are more efficient because they've got less power. What goes around comes around.
Could also be that mercs have a worse fuel tank design.

They'll bring a lower low drag rear and front wings, RB were already using the Monza rear wing

They were only using it during FP1 and even then only on vettel's car. They reverted to a slightly more DF concentrated canada-like spec after fp2 I believe.

[Shrieker]

The speed trap was right on the exit of Raidillon. The Bulls were upwards of 10 km/h faster than the Mercs all weekend at the speed trap, which tells me they carried more speed out of Raidillon. If you look at the first lap of the race, Hamilton very clearly struggled to make it out of Eau Rouge/Raidillon while Vettel closed all the gap to get into his slipstream. If at any point of the weekend the Mercs looked comfortable through there I would've agreed that they had enough downforce to go head to head with the bulls. Martin Brundle was standing at the entry to Eau Rouge in fp2, and he noted that Mercs were lifting while the bulls were flat all the way. I don't buy into the argument that it's easy nowadays. If you have more downforce, it will make a difference - which is what we witnessed today.

[SectorOne]

They are more efficient because they've got less power. What goes around comes around.
Could also be that mercs have a worse fuel tank design.

With the allowed update for Renault they could very well have bumped up the horsepower and still maybe even improved fuel economy even further.

They'll bring a lower low drag rear and front wings, RB were already using the Monza rear wing

They were only using it during FP1 and even then only on vettel's car. They reverted to a slightly more DF concentrated canada-like spec after fp2 I believe.

They ran a tiny little rear wing on the car in the race.