2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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raymondu999
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2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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Image

2012
Image
Image
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2013
Tyres - Hard (prime, red) and Medium (option, white)

2012*
Tyres - Hard (prime, silver) and Medium (option, white)
Pole - Jenson Button
Winner - Jenson Button (Medium - Hard)

2011
Tyres - Medium (prime, white) and Soft (option, yellow)
Pole - Sebastian Vettel
Winner - Sebastian Vettel (Soft - Soft - Soft - Medium)

2012 - Jenson Button
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZzM-ZVlxvw[/youtube]
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godlameroso
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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From the second shortest track of the year to the longest, seems like Vettel has competition now, I can't wait for this race.

The circuit characteristics demand a very efficient car in terms of downforce and also drag; as the run from La Source to Les Combes is almost 3km, and the rest of the lap is mostly medium to high speed sweepers and S-turns. There are only three turns that are taken below third gear. Mid corner grip is essential to a fast lap as is good change of direction, to be honest this is such a unique circuit that it's difficult for me to think of any other circuit with similar requirements.
Last edited by godlameroso on Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JimClarkFan
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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We expect Mercedes to be very strong here?

beelsebob
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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JimClarkFan wrote:We expect Mercedes to be very strong here?
Sounds plausible, it's usually pretty cool here. I hope so – I'd love to watch Hamilton win :)

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Guisson
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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Spa should be the playground of the Silver Arrows , with Ferrari not far behind ..
Red Bull might struggle but we don't know.. They'll definitely have new updates there , maybe a DRD ?
Well we all know that the Ardennes weather is the most unpredictable along with Sepang , Maybe a Mclaren win in the rain ? it would be orgasmic.
The task is,not so much to see what no one has yet seenbut to think what nobody has yet thought, about that which everybody sees. Erwin Schrödinger

beelsebob
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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RB_[Gnx] wrote:Spa should be the playground of the Silver Arrows , with Ferrari not far behind ..
Red Bull might struggle but we don't know.. They'll definitely have new updates there , maybe a DRD ?
Well we all know that the Ardennes weather is the most unpredictable along with Sepang , Maybe a Mclaren win in the rain ? it would be orgasmic.
I don't understand why everyone goes on about the DRD at spa. It's probably the single worst circuit for it of any. It has extremely high speed turns, that needs downforce at pretty high speeds. Any DRD at Spa would need to be configured to only switch at very high speeds, and hence have very little benefit.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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If you can switch it on at 280kph it would work just fine because pouhon is the fastest turn on the circuit and it's taken at just under 270.

Weather will be mixed throughout the weekend, it won't be rainy or dry it will keep switching back and forth.
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JimClarkFan
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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Raymondo, I'm afraid you forgot something in your original post: Spa Telemetry
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beelsebob
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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godlameroso wrote:If you can switch it on at 280kph it would work just fine because pouhon is the fastest turn on the circuit and it's taken at just under 270.

Weather will be mixed throughout the weekend, it won't be rainy or dry it will keep switching back and forth.
Okay, so that gives you an extra 5km/h when you're over 280km/h, which is at the end of kemmel, and the exit of Blanchemont, so you're talking about being 1.5% faster for about 5% of the time during the lap, or 0.075% faster over a lap, aka about 0.05 seconds a lap. See, not really great ;)

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turbof1
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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beelsebob wrote:
RB_[Gnx] wrote:Spa should be the playground of the Silver Arrows , with Ferrari not far behind ..
Red Bull might struggle but we don't know.. They'll definitely have new updates there , maybe a DRD ?
Well we all know that the Ardennes weather is the most unpredictable along with Sepang , Maybe a Mclaren win in the rain ? it would be orgasmic.
I don't understand why everyone goes on about the DRD at spa. It's probably the single worst circuit for it of any. It has extremely high speed turns, that needs downforce at pretty high speeds. Any DRD at Spa would need to be configured to only switch at very high speeds, and hence have very little benefit.
I think it could be of great benefit. It'll allow the team to run bigger rear wing angles to have better downforce in the second sector. In the higher speed corners the diffuser alone produces sufficient downforce, so they could shed the unnecessary drag.

Remember 2010? They drove up eau rouge full speed, no lift, with a stalled rear wing.

And teams take everything they can get. They would welcome a 0.05s gain. I think they can gain more though: with more DF in sector 2 without a decrease in top speed, you can get maybe 2 tenths out of it.
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SamH123
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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What with this being one of the weaker RB tracks (because of the power requirements) it seems logical Mercedes can stroll to pole.. but you never know

Why have Ferrari traditionally not been that strong here considering how good they are at Monza? Both are power circuits but If anything I would have thought the Ferrari would like the high speed corners of Spa more than Monza

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raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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SamH123 wrote:What with this being one of the weaker RB tracks (because of the power requirements) it seems logical Mercedes can stroll to pole.. but you never know

Why have Ferrari traditionally not been that strong here considering how good they are at Monza? Both are power circuits but If anything I would have thought the Ferrari would like the high speed corners of Spa more than Monza
Don't forget that this is Alonso's "off" circuit - if he does indeed have one.
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beelsebob
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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turbof1 wrote:
beelsebob wrote:
RB_[Gnx] wrote:Spa should be the playground of the Silver Arrows , with Ferrari not far behind ..
Red Bull might struggle but we don't know.. They'll definitely have new updates there , maybe a DRD ?
Well we all know that the Ardennes weather is the most unpredictable along with Sepang , Maybe a Mclaren win in the rain ? it would be orgasmic.
I don't understand why everyone goes on about the DRD at spa. It's probably the single worst circuit for it of any. It has extremely high speed turns, that needs downforce at pretty high speeds. Any DRD at Spa would need to be configured to only switch at very high speeds, and hence have very little benefit.
I think it could be of great benefit. It'll allow the team to run bigger rear wing angles to have better downforce in the second sector. In the higher speed corners the diffuser alone produces sufficient downforce, so they could shed the unnecessary drag.

Remember 2010? They drove up eau rouge full speed, no lift, with a stalled rear wing.

And teams take everything they can get. They would welcome a 0.05s gain. I think they can gain more though: with more DF in sector 2 without a decrease in top speed, you can get maybe 2 tenths out of it.
Except that they can't run bigger wing angles, because unlike with DRS, the switch only affects you at very high speeds. The f-duct worked wonders at Spa because you could open it coming out of the hairpin and use it all the way down to the end of the Kemmel straight. By comparison, the DRD would be closed until most of the way down the kemmel straight, and that big ass rear wing will be hurting you all the way. In order for DRD to be effective, you need to be able to tune it to open at fairly low speeds, and not have it compromise any corners. That means it'll be great at Monza, where the worst you have to deal with is the entry to parabolica, but at Spa, it's not useful at all.

While the teams would happily take 0.05 seconds, they'll gain more than 0.05 seconds by setting the car up properly in practice, instead of spending their time tuning a DRD.

myurr
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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SamH123 wrote:What with this being one of the weaker RB tracks (because of the power requirements) it seems logical Mercedes can stroll to pole.. but you never know

Why have Ferrari traditionally not been that strong here considering how good they are at Monza? Both are power circuits but If anything I would have thought the Ferrari would like the high speed corners of Spa more than Monza
It doesn't always work out that way but by rights Silverstone should be a good analogue. It asks for a similar high speed but high downforce configuration and has some equally fast corners, so from an aero point of view it should be a reasonable guide. So we should see Merc do really well here, certainly getting at least one front row starting slot and being in the hunt for the win. Red Bull will probably be strong here but should not be odds on favourites - they will have a shot at pole and the win though.

To be honest I expect the same four cars to do well, so Ferrari and Lotus will be up there with Ferrari probably being at the back of that pack in qualifying, but also with McLaren and especially Force India having a stronger showing than in Hungary.

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turbof1
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Re: 2013 Belgian GP - Spa

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beelsebob wrote: Except that they can't run bigger wing angles, because unlike with DRS, the switch only affects you at very high speeds. The f-duct worked wonders at Spa because you could open it coming out of the hairpin and use it all the way down to the end of the Kemmel straight. By comparison, the DRD would be closed until most of the way down the kemmel straight, and that big ass rear wing will be hurting you all the way. In order for DRD to be effective, you need to be able to tune it to open at fairly low speeds, and not have it compromise any corners. That means it'll be great at Monza, where the worst you have to deal with is the entry to parabolica, but at Spa, it's not useful at all.

While the teams would happily take 0.05 seconds, they'll gain more than 0.05 seconds by setting the car up properly in practice, instead of spending their time tuning a DRD.
At lower speeds, the drag coming off the wing isn't that great. It'll hamper acceleration a bit yes, bit I think the gains outweight the disadvantages. Especially because almost all of the corners where you need the rear wing downforce are concentrated in one sector. Almost the other corners, with the exception of chicanes, are so high speed that the diffuser is more then enough to produce the necessary DF. It makes life concerning set up a little bit easier too. I feel it is even possible to stall the rear wing at Pouhon.. So you can set the stalling speed rather low, perhaps even at 250 km/h.

Set up of the DRD is of course always a problem. That same will also be true for Monza. But if it works, they should do it. No questions asked.
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