2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[astracrazy]

"The Team will not be appealing Lewis’ disqualification from Quali.

We want to win these World Championships on the race track. "

I guess they just want to draw a line under this whole embarrassing situation, knowing that it wouldn't likely change anything anyway.

They said they want to do their talking on track. Let's see how long it takes Toto to stick to that

[jjn9128]

I can’t read this thread without not noticing the toxicity towards Merc and Lewis. Some of the language and words used to label professionals is just beyond my imagination.

I will come back to this thread on Monday morning and enjoy the rest of this Brazilian weekend.

Have a good one lads.

Don't blame the mods because your inherent bias notices one side not the other. Hamilton/Mercedes and Verstappen/Red Bull fans can be as toxic as each other (equally there are fans on both sides who can take criticism of their chosen side with grace and humility). Just because you disagree doesn't mean something is wrong. This is the problem with discourse these days. Don't rely on mods, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. Ignore the posts which irk you or critically analyse why they annoy you and don't start/get drawn into arguments.

(that last bit isn't aimed at you but everyone)

[mstar]

"The Team will not be appealing Lewis’ disqualification from Quali.

We want to win these World Championships on the race track. "

I guess they just want to draw a line under this whole embarrassing situation, knowing that it wouldn't likely change anything anyway.

how is it embarrassing? they did nothing wrong. They didnt know it was failing (like RB noticed), so could not correct it. The design and production has been the same for years and they never failed. So this points to "something happened"
The DRS didnt give them extreme speed on the straight as shown by VB car. The GPS never showed he got all the time on the straights as well.

[nokivasara]

He's right, breaking regulations is dumb and gets you DSQ'd. Working to the limit of the wording is the razor edge. If a TD has to be issued because of something you're doing you're doing it right.

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/new ... d-illegal/
Pretty sure that was by design. It could also be argued their rear wings this season were designed to break regulations.

You could incorrectly argue that. The regulations state the wing has to pass a series of static load tests. Theirs passed these tests and was therefor legal.

Exploiting the gray areas is one of the big things in F1 IMO, they have brought forward some pretty clever contraptions. The Brabham fan car, the six wheeler Tyrell, dual brake pedal Mclaren, jaw dampered Renault etc etc
As long as the clear rules are followed it's all right.

[Zynerji]

Did Horner just say you don’t deliberately design something to break the regulations I have no idea how he kept a straight face. Even the commentator laughed.

He's right, breaking regulations is dumb and gets you DSQ'd. Working to the limit of the wording is the razor edge. If a TD has to be issued because of something you're doing you're doing it right.

My favorite post of all-time! Stealing as my signature as soon as I get home to my laptop!

[Marty_Y]

"The Team will not be appealing Lewis’ disqualification from Quali.

We want to win these World Championships on the race track. "

I guess they just want to draw a line under this whole embarrassing situation, knowing that it wouldn't likely change anything anyway.

how is it embarrassing? they did nothing wrong. They didnt know it was failing (like RB noticed), so could not correct it. The design and production has been the same for years and they never failed. So this points to "something happened"
The DRS didnt give them extreme speed on the straight as shown by VB car. The GPS never showed he got all the time on the straights as well.

It's embarrassing because people just read headlines, it makes the brand look bad, it's a embarrassment to fail tests.

I'm not having a dig, I'm a Mercedes fan, this whole thing upsets me, but it is a embarrassment no matter how understandable the reason is.

[zibby43]

"The Team will not be appealing Lewis’ disqualification from Quali.

We want to win these World Championships on the race track. "

I guess they just want to draw a line under this whole embarrassing situation, knowing that it wouldn't likely change anything anyway.

how is it embarrassing? they did nothing wrong. They didnt know it was failing (like RB noticed), so could not correct it. The design and production has been the same for years and they never failed. So this points to "something happened"
The DRS didnt give them extreme speed on the straight as shown by VB car. The GPS never showed he got all the time on the straights as well.

It's embarrassing because people just read headlines, it makes the brand look bad, it's a embarrassment to fail tests.

I'm not having a dig, I'm a Mercedes fan, this whole thing upsets me, but it is a embarrassment no matter how understandable the reason is.

As much as it pains me to agree, I do.

First time something like this has happened to the team in 8 years.

RBR Honda have been superior in every facet operationally this year. And Max has driven well and made some great moves. They deserve both titles.

Only Hamilton’s heroic efforts have kept this thing close this year.

Would’ve like to have seen this year play out with Merc racing a true successor to the W11 and not a neutered floor W12.

[jjn9128]

Exploiting the gray areas is one of the big things in F1 IMO, they have brought forward some pretty clever contraptions. The Brabham fan car, the six wheeler Tyrell, dual brake pedal Mclaren, jaw dampered Renault etc etc
As long as the clear rules are followed it's all right.

It's the bit we should like on F1technical

[Ryar]

I can’t read this thread without not noticing the toxicity towards Merc and Lewis. Some of the language and words used to label professionals is just beyond my imagination.

I will come back to this thread on Monday morning and enjoy the rest of this Brazilian weekend.

Have a good one lads.

Don't blame the mods because your inherent bias notices one side not the other. Hamilton/Mercedes and Verstappen/Red Bull fans can be as toxic as each other (equally there are fans on both sides who can take criticism of their chosen side with grace and humility). Just because you disagree doesn't mean something is wrong. This is the problem with discourse these days. Don't rely on mods, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. Ignore the posts which irk you or critically analyse why they annoy you and don't start/get drawn into arguments.

(that last bit isn't aimed at you but everyone)

Well said.

[Sieper]

Is this for this race or has Mercedes been doing this for a while now? Anyways Hamilton had 6km/hr over Bottas, that is huge. How much is that worth? 2 Tenths? 1 tenth? 2.5 Tenths? 3 Tenths? Would vary from track to track but it is a difference & one of the reason why Lewis is above Bottas & Verstappen by a huge margin.

Total cheat act by Mercedes running an illegal Rear Wing intentionally when they got RB's then legal flexi rear wing banned by cribbing & by getting new tests introduced mid-season. No such thing was done for DAS. Anyways, really horrible act.

Verstappen has lost a lot - Baku Tyre failure, Hamilton taking him out in Britain, Agent Bottas in Hungary. This will partially compensate for all that. This is a championship where Verstappen has been far superior & should have had a 60-70 point lead & he should have clinched the Championship in Brazil. Norris, Leclerc, Sainz have all been better than Hamilton this season & to some extent Gasly as well !

Incredible that Mercedes/Hamilton tried to blame Verstappen for it - And amazing that Bottas literally has an inferior car - 2 Tenths+ slower & not the illegal rear wing car (if Mercedes thought it was legal) - He has been treated like Hamilton's dog ! Bottas is Hamilton's Rubens Barrichello & that is Lewis kept cribbing about Bottas' being his best team-mate when he got beaten or drew with Rosberg, Button & Alonso (Because he knew Bottas was his toy !)

I am no Merc fan but you answered your own question in the first two sentences. Find another race Lewis has had such a hugh advantage over Bottas in a DRS zone, I doubt there is one.

Find another race where Lewis has a brand new ICE that will be optimised to only race in 4 races.

From what the stewards report said was that the test instrument only passed through the gap when small pressure was applied, so it basically only JUST squeezed through, but it still broke the rules. so fair enough, its illegal. But what it does say is that the gap on Hamiltons car was not even 1mm bigger, at the edges, not the whole thing. To think this would be the reason he gained that speed advantage is absolutely insane.

Even in 2019 (with Merc advantage and mighty Ferrari) all the gaps here in the qualy were super thin. Tenths. Like they were all 2021 season also. And will be next race again. Do you really believe the advantage was small?

Mercedes did not as they send Ham out in front of Bot for run 2. They were sure already and hoped for a front row lockout.

[Big Tea]

Why is it now that the track seems to want to burst your eardrums? Do the feel they have to make up for the lack of noise from the cars?
Music and entertainment is fine, but once it gets beyond a level it is irrelevant. (yes I'm old and grumpy, but not deaf)

[jjn9128]

Why is it now that the track seems to want to burst your eardrums? Do the feel they have to make up for the lack of noise from the cars?
Music and entertainment is fine, but once it gets beyond a level it is irrelevant. (yes I'm old and grumpy, but not deaf)

It's at all events (even cricket now). And usually they're overblowing the speakers and overdriving the bass to uncomfortable levels.

[Starkblood80]

He's right, breaking regulations is dumb and gets you DSQ'd. Working to the limit of the wording is the razor edge. If a TD has to be issued because of something you're doing you're doing it right.

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/new ... d-illegal/
Pretty sure that was by design. It could also be argued their rear wings this season were designed to break regulations.

You could incorrectly argue that. The regulations state the wing has to pass a series of static load tests. Theirs passed these tests and was therefor legal.

Passing a test doesn’t make something legal otherwise Lance Armstrong would still hold all his Tour de France titles. But alas this is an old argument which as been done to death so there’s nothing to gain by going down that rabbit hole.

[Starkblood80]

Did Horner just say you don’t deliberately design something to break the regulations I have no idea how he kept a straight face. Even the commentator laughed.

You talk like its only Red Bull? Mercedes have had their fair share of technical directives aimed at them through the year. Simon Lazenby laughing isn't anything to go by.

Where did I say it was only Redbull? It was Horner who said it live on sky sports, who else am I supposed to make the comment about?
What technical directives have been aimed at Mercedes this season?

[Chuckjr]

Why all the talk the season is over? Lewis has started from the back a number of times and got well into the points. Even podiums. This isn’t over.

Merc didn’t cheat. Come on. They had a part wear down and they got caught. Happens.

This isn’t over.