Racing Incident Definition

[SiLo]

In light of the penalties/racing incidents or whatever you want to call them depending on which way you are inclined (specifically from the Monaco GP), could people just give me a list of incidents in which they think should have been put down as racing incidents and NOT penalties?

Please don't include the ones from said GP, we've had enough of that already, I'm just curious to see if there is a certain type of accident that occurs a lot and is penalised or not etc.

And please, let's keep the thread clean, no bashing, and provide video evidence where possible!

Discuss

[zmiles2]

I couldnt agree more!
Both of Hamilton's incidents today were "racing incidents", along with Vettel and Button from Spa last year

[Pandamasque]

Off the top of my head: Alonso-Hamilton @ Malaysia 2011.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Vettel and Button from Spa last year

That was 100% Vettels fault, call it whatever you like, milkybar kid got it wrong.

What are we saying these penalties should be handed out for? I don't think any driver would intentionally cause a collision. I think the consensus is 'causing an avoidable accident' but this definition is so flimsy, you could fit any accident not related to a mechanical failure under that right?

[Sebp]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poOe7W-3cxA[/youtube]

At the time this caused a similar uproar to the Hamilton-Maldonado clash. It was worse though in the way that the guys involved were fighting for the championship. Today for me it's just another racing incident. When it happened I was in my teens and, to put it mildly, disliked Schuey somewhat. So guess who I sided with

[andrew]

Most racing incidents are open to interpretation and depend which side of the fence you sit on.

Whilst Bruce Willis's pal in the film sees dead people, I see more arguments coming soon.

At the time this caused a similar uproar to the Hamilton-Maldonado clash. It was worse though in the way that the guys involved were fighting for the championship. Today for me it's just another racing incident. When it happened I was in my teens and, to put it mildly, disliked Schuey somewhat. So guess who I sided with

Is that not the incident where Frank Williams apologised to Schumacher/Benetton for his driver being an idiot (his words not mine) or words to that effect?

[Sebp]

At the time this caused a similar uproar to the Hamilton-Maldonado clash. It was worse though in the way that the guys involved were fighting for the championship. Today for me it's just another racing incident. When it happened I was in my teens and, to put it mildly, disliked Schuey somewhat. So guess who I sided with

Is that not the incident where Frank Williams apologised to Schumacher/Benetton for his driver being an idiot (his words not mine) or words to that effect?

Williams never really liked his drivers, did he? Always sacking them when they start winning championships and that...Piquet, Mansell, Prost, Hill.

[Sebp]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmXUtwSI ... re=related[/youtube]

'ish happens...

[lebesset]

this may all have been started by events in monaco , but I think the roots lay elsewhere
for years we had drivers like schu and senna , in the fastest car , and if they got partly up beside you , they were coming past ; the others got out the way because they knew there would be an accident otherwise

now the pendulum has swung the other way , and if a driver can overlap you ,you can cut him off to block his overtake

so I feel the rule needs to be changed , if a driver has an overlap on you you must give him room so long as that does not involve you leaving the track surface as delineated ; definition of overlap ? his front tyre ahead of your rear tyre perhaps

notice that is exactly what hamilton did when schu overtook him , and the same when hamilton overtook schu ; mally and massa did the opposite

DRS has been introduced to enable the following driver to get up alongside , not to enable him to just drive past , that would be the end if F1 in my view ; if he then has to give way unless he is actually in front you should scrap DRS

[Sebp]

this may all have been started by events in monaco , but I think the roots lay elsewhere
for years we had drivers like schu and senna , in the fastest car , and if they got partly up beside you , they were coming past ; the others got out the way because they knew there would be an accident otherwise

If I know my history correctly, there was a time before "hardcore professionals" like Senna and Schumacher stepped on the scene, when gentleman racers raced for the fun of it. Now it's all about getting results no matter what the cost. And if it takes ramming someone of the track, then so be it.
Of course in earlier times you couldn't just nudge someone of the track at a wim because your opponent might have died in the process. The increase in safety measures over the years have brought with them a total disregard for the integrity of your rivals car.
So today the ethics of F1 being a no-contact sport have sadly been lost.

[Dragonfly]

By internet forum standards a racing incident is an incident as a result of which my (your) favorite driver gets a penalty, but I (you) think he shouldn't.

[Just_a_fan]

At the time this caused a similar uproar to the Hamilton-Maldonado clash. It was worse though in the way that the guys involved were fighting for the championship. Today for me it's just another racing incident. When it happened I was in my teens and, to put it mildly, disliked Schuey somewhat. So guess who I sided with

Is that not the incident where Frank Williams apologised to Schumacher/Benetton for his driver being an idiot (his words not mine) or words to that effect?

Williams never really liked his drivers, did he? Always sacking them when they start winning championships and that...Piquet, Mansell, Prost, Hill.

Yeah. I think the last driver he was nice about was Jones!

[Just_a_fan]

Perhaps a more open ended definition is "an incident, involving contact between two cars, in which both drivers involved could have avoided contact by more careful postioning of their car"

This neatly excludes drivers chopping across someone else for example.

Anyway, I put if forward as "a starter for ten"*.

*for those outside of the UK, this is a reference to a quiz show (University Challenge) where the the quiz master would say to a team at the start of the round "your starter [first question] for 10 points is..."

[andrew]

At the time this caused a similar uproar to the Hamilton-Maldonado clash. It was worse though in the way that the guys involved were fighting for the championship. Today for me it's just another racing incident. When it happened I was in my teens and, to put it mildly, disliked Schuey somewhat. So guess who I sided with

Is that not the incident where Frank Williams apologised to Schumacher/Benetton for his driver being an idiot (his words not mine) or words to that effect?

Williams never really liked his drivers, did he? Always sacking them when they start winning championships and that...Piquet, Mansell, Prost, Hill.

I'm not sure about Piquet but I'm sure that Prost and Mansell were not sacked. Mansell returned for a couple races in 94 and Prost returned in 93, trounced everyone and then decided it was time to call it a day.

Sacking Hill was understandable. Best car in 94 and 95 and he still didn't win the championship.

I think you are mistaking dislike for tough love. Treat the drivers like crap and they will be more determined to prove him wrong.

[Sebp]

I'm not sure about Piquet but I'm sure that Prost and Mansell were not sacked. Mansell returned for a couple races in 94 and Prost returned in 93, trounced everyone and then decided it was time to call it a day.

Sacking Hill was understandable. Best car in 94 and 95 and he still didn't win the championship.

I think you are mistaking dislike for tough love. Treat the drivers like crap and they will be more determined to prove him wrong.

Mansell was pushed out by Prost. And Prost legged it as soon as he heard Senna was coming along. That aside, I don't really believe Williams doesn't "like" his drivers. I was getting on about the coincedence of drivers leaving the team as soon as they won the crown.