DTM 2012

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HampusA
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 14:49

DTM 2012

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Bit early i know but i´m a BMW fan and plan on follow BMW´s comeback in DTM.
Thought we could discuss what we know so far among other stuff.

Image

When could we expect to see the cars to be unveiled? December or early next year?
I´m also interested in the new regulations and i know there have been talks about a collaboration with SuperGT so it would be possible to run the cars in both series without to much modification.

Anybody have some news regarding the 2012 season?
If the season turns out to be just 1% of this then it´s all good for me :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw-AxiVqihM[/youtube]

Sorry if there already is a thread. I searched for "DTM" and nothing came up.
The truth will come out...

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HampusA
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Re: DTM 2012

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Found something but just suggestions it seems, was an interesting note however in the article.
Specifications of the new DTM car
Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters-organiser ITR has put forward a proposal on specifications for their new car, set to be introduced in 2011 or 2012. ITR is looking to merge the new DTM rules with the GT500 class of the Japanese Super GT-series.
Japanese magazine Autosport reported the following specifications suggested for the new DTM/GT500 car:

- Common carbon monocoque with roll cage
- Wheelbase of 2850 mm
- Common front and rear overhang
- Common front spoiler and rear diffuser
- V8 engine of yet to be announced size
- Limited number of engines during season
- Introduction of "design line" where on one side all cars are common
- 51% cost reduction compared to current DTM regulations

A DTM car is reported to have been brought over to Japan for a comparison with a GT500 car. Spanish site Sportmotores reported that the difference between the both cars were seven seconds per lap.

The Japanese teams are seemingly positive about the new plans but think that it will not be ready for next year.

"The negotiations are positive if you think about the future. But I do not think the regulations will be put in to force before 2012," said NISMO president Sanda to the Japanese magazine Autosport.
The truth will come out...

ESPImperium
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Re: DTM 2012

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The new DTM cars are also in line to be adopted by the Ausie V8 guys as well, and there has been talk of a new NASCAR-2 formula to replace the Nationwide Series that also has had talk of coming into the USA.

All this talk has also made the South American TC 2000 championship has also thought about coming into the same common regulations.

This has led to talk over a new common World TDM championship with 2 or 3 car teams ran by as many as 6 or 7 diffrent manufacturers, and a localised DTM chamionship as well. So in effect there would be 2 tiers to DTM;

World DTM Championship - 12-15 races on the F1 off weekend, supporting some F1 events in some places (Brazil, Canada, Japan, China and Austrailia for example)
DTM Euro Series - 8 races
NASCAR-2 America - Supporting NASCAR
DTM Asia - 8 to 10 races
TC 2000 South America - 8 races
V8 Supercars (Austrailia) - 26 to 30 races (They do 2 races a wekend typically)

Personaly i think this would lead to a really strong tin top series. Lets face it, there isnt a strong tin top series out side of America, and would really would enjoy watching a strong series regionally and internationally.

The FIA and ACO are trying to make a strong endurance championship now, and i welcome this, but watching about 8 to 10 endurance races every year could become tedious, Le Mans is fine for me, but i like watching the rest in about a 60 to 90 minuite programme. However a DTM series that had races that lasted 50 to 90 minuites once or twice a weekend (if there was a sprint and feature race format, sprint on the Saturday, Feature on the sunday) is something id think id like to watch.

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HampusA
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Re: DTM 2012

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Wow that sounds awsome! I knew there was talks about America aswell there but just read a sentence about it or so.

This isn´t the "World Cup" i´ve been hearing about on the Le Mans 24h broadcast?
They talked about how great it would be with a world cup sort of but that´s ILMS right? And is going on now?

Anyway, fantastic stuff. It´s nice to see more GT racing now and hopefully with a wide variety of manufacturers.

Edit: Nevermind, it´s called ILMC and is run today, also a nice series.
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ESPImperium
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Re: DTM 2012

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Its close, or as close as damn it.

I think what the were after in Le Mans is for the Canadian GP to be pushed back a week so the F1 guys could come into LMP1, especially in the next few years once Nissan, Toyota and potentially Honda get a LMP1 program that will challange the main protagonists in LMP racing in Audi, Peugoet and Aston Martin.

They were wanting a LMP class that was arround 25 to 30 cars thick, and all within 2.5 seconds arround that 13.6km track. It would be fun to see a Red Bull sponsored team with 3 cars wth theese 3 lineups:

Car 1: Vettel/Webber/Coulthard
Car 2: Alguersauri/Buemi/Riccardo
Car 3: Loeb/Raikkonenn/Vergne

Or a Vodaphone sponsored car with:

Car 1: Hamilton/De la Rosa/Paffett
Car 2: Button/Whincup/Lowndes

Or a Santander team with:

Car 1: Alonso/Bianchai/Perez
Car 2: Massa/Fisichella/Gutiérrez

Or a Petronas entry:

Car 1: Schumacher/Di Resta/Glock
Car 2: Rosberg/Sutil/Bird

With the Audi and Peugoet entrys, that would lead to one epic tussle at the Le Mans.

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747heavy
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Re: DTM 2012

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ESPImperium wrote:The new DTM cars are also in line to be adopted by the Ausie V8 guys as well, and there has been talk of a new NASCAR-2 formula to replace the Nationwide Series that also has had talk of coming into the USA.

All this talk has also made the South American TC 2000 championship has also thought about coming into the same common regulations.

This has led to talk over a new common World TDM championship with 2 or 3 car teams ran by as many as 6 or 7 diffrent manufacturers, and a localised DTM chamionship as well. So in effect there would be 2 tiers to DTM;

World DTM Championship - 12-15 races on the F1 off weekend, supporting some F1 events in some places (Brazil, Canada, Japan, China and Austrailia for example)
DTM Euro Series - 8 races
NASCAR-2 America - Supporting NASCAR
DTM Asia - 8 to 10 races
TC 2000 South America - 8 races
V8 Supercars (Austrailia) - 26 to 30 races (They do 2 races a wekend typically)

Personaly i think this would lead to a really strong tin top series. Lets face it, there isnt a strong tin top series out side of America, and would really would enjoy watching a strong series regionally and internationally.

The FIA and ACO are trying to make a strong endurance championship now, and i welcome this, but watching about 8 to 10 endurance races every year could become tedious, Le Mans is fine for me, but i like watching the rest in about a 60 to 90 minuite programme. However a DTM series that had races that lasted 50 to 90 minuites once or twice a weekend (if there was a sprint and feature race format, sprint on the Saturday, Feature on the sunday) is something id think id like to watch.

any prove to back this up ESP?
or you make this up as you go? (no offence intended)
I would be very interested to so see any prove about V8Supercars or TC2000 going to run with the 2012 DTM rules.

As far as V8Supercars go, I would say it´s "highly unlikely" considering the current CoF developments, and the fact that they have FIA blessing for an "international series". Something, which DTM does no have (yet).

I would be surprised if TC2000 would go down this route, why would they want to?
They have one of the strongest national Touring Car championships in the world, and more manufacturers involved then any other championship.

At one point there was talk to run an US series together with GrandAM (2013+), which would make sense IHMO, seeing that the US is one of the main markets for Audi,BMW & Merc.

If there would be an "DTM world series" or however you want to call it, it would most likely spell the end for FIA WTCC, so not sure this will happen in a hurry.

Last time DTM/ITC where trying to run a "touring car world series" was in 1996 and it ended in tears.
Not sure they would like to do the same thing again, just yet.

But nice pipe dream non the less, let´s see how 2012 in Germany turns out, and take it one step at the time.

As an side note:
interesting choice of engine (if true), tells you something about how much manufacturers really like an I4 with T/C even in a product which has some similarities with their showroom cousins and the godfather of the GRE involved.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

alelanza
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Re: DTM 2012

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So the 'new' DTM gets V8s? shouldn't they be getting 2 cylinder diesels? i mean if f1 gets inline 4s. And being they actually look like street cars, what are they doing in order to be road relevant and help us all save the planet?
And if they bring the japanese in, will priuses dominate?
Alejandro L.

Muulka
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Re: DTM 2012

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alelanza wrote:So the 'new' DTM gets V8s? shouldn't they be getting 2 cylinder diesels? i mean if f1 gets inline 4s. And being they actually look like street cars, what are they doing in order to be road relevant and help us all save the planet?
And if they bring the japanese in, will priuses dominate?
Yes they will, before being banned on safety grounds- high voltage is dangerous, you know :P

ESPImperium
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Re: DTM 2012

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I think that 747 has pointed out a few flaws and where i got my wires crossed. It was for Grand AM, not NASCAR.

The world DTM Championship was thought about, but at earliest will be with us from 2015.

Most of what i read on the concept was in Autosport last year, and things were changing all the time. The Auzzie V8s are looking at the design and said they will probably adopt the common regs, but with their V8 engines. TC2000 have been thinking about common regs for a while, however they are wanting to control costs more, but was rated as 50/50 they would do anything at the time. However, they would keep a tab on the DTM/Super GT regs were going before even thinking about them.

Id recon that it is a bit of a pipe-dream, however some pipe-dreams do come true as there is a need for a international world class tin top series.

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HampusA
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Re: DTM 2012

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Next month will BMW unveil the concept car of their DTM machine,

Will be interesting to see how the cars will look compared to today´s machines.
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djos
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Re: DTM 2012

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747heavy wrote: As far as V8Supercars go, I would say it´s "highly unlikely" considering the current CoF developments, and the fact that they have FIA blessing for an "international series". Something, which DTM does no have (yet).
The V8 Supercars are effectively barred from going to europe, the middle east is as close as the deal with the FIA allows* - dont be surprised tho if there is one race a year in the USA paired up with a nationwide round at Road America for example announced in the next week or so.

DTM is frankly the only really decent tin top racing series in Europe and it's a shame we dont get it on Aussie TV.

*the FIA cant have the V8SC championship making WTCC look even more pathetic than it already is can they!
"In downforce we trust"

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HampusA
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Re: DTM 2012

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All these touring car series is totally destroyed now..

WTCC, STCC, BTCC etc. All of them are now so nerfed against RWD cars it´s silly.
Back in the days it was FWD, RWD and 4WD duking it out.
Now it´s FWD Diesel to be quick..
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747heavy
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Re: DTM 2012

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I wouldn´t be surprised at all, if they would go to the US, allowed I like to think an expansion into Asia (Singapore, China etc.) is more likely for the time being.
For the current manufacturers involved, thee would be little incentive/interest in a race in Europe, as the cars are not sold here in this form.

I just wanted to point out, that it would surprise me if Supercars would adopt the DTM technical regs in the near future.
I think, that´s highly unlikely.
The interesting part is what V8SC is going to do engine wise for the future.
If they would allow for a more contemporary engine (still V8, but OHC/DOHC), then others may be interested.

The chassis side (CoF/Project Blueprint etc.), is not too much of a problem and resonable cheap (by manufacturer standards), so even the local distribution/dealers could afford it as an regional project.
But to spend mega bucks on an engine which nobody has in it´s current road cars is a bit much to ask. Keeping in mind that Australia/NZ is not a "mega market" sales wise, for most manufacturers.
IMHO it would make sense to look at a more common base engine, and here having a talk with others DTM/JGT/FIA GT2/ACO/ALMS etc., to see if one can come up with a common denominator.
This could be benefical long term wise.
Just as an example, I would think that the GT3 engine of the Corvette or the GT40 would be a decent base to work from.

Some Aussie´s love to hate their V8SC´s, for one reason or the other, but at the end of the day, it´s a quite good series (IMHO), and seeing how they go/have been going over the last 10-15 years, I don´t think they have done too much wrong.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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747heavy
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Re: DTM 2012

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HampusA wrote:.
Now it´s FWD Diesel to be quick..
not so much Diesel anymore, if you talk WTCC/BTCC.
But petrol/gasoline 1.6lt turbo.

Even back in the heydays of Supertouring car´s most where FWD, but I generally see your point, and partly agree.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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HampusA
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Re: DTM 2012

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This picture was made several years ago but was made in mind of what a BMW would look like in DTM. Obviously to the regulations we have today.

Image
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