Should cars stuck in gravel be helped back on track?

[bergzy]

When I watched the entire rookie season of Hamilton, at first I was impressed with his smooth driving. But as the season wore on, I noticed an amazing amount of leniency given by the stewards to Hamilton. Everyone around him, on the other hand, was penalized for the incidents, imo, he caused.

During a very wet race, I can't remember the year or race. Maybe the Japan or China Grand Prix, where Hamilton spun out onto the gravel and was craned back on the track to continue racing while other cars were left stranded. Ten years of Formula One watching, I have never seen a driver craned back onto the track so that he can continue racing.

So, Hamilton and his driving prowess, imo, is extremely aggressive that is reminiscent of Montoya but even more so. I still remember one of Montoya's last race where the field was going somewhat slow and he just plowed into the back of his team mate Kimi. Hilarious.

I saw through Hamilton's false humbleness very early on. He went from congratulating his team to short of telling them that they are incompetent. Not smart.

[PlatinumZealot]

I don't agree that his style is aggressive. What I see is not aggression.

In psychology, as well as other social and behavioral sciences, aggression refers to behavior between members of the same species that is intended to cause humiliation, pain, or harm. Ferguson and Beaver (2009) defined aggressive behavior as "Behavior which is intended to increase the social dominance of the organism relative to the dominance position of other organisms" [1]. Predatory or defensive behavior between members of different species is not normally considered "aggression." Aggression takes a variety of forms among humans and can be physical, mental, or verbal. Aggression exists on a continuum with what is commonly called assertiveness, although the terms are often used interchangeably among laypeople, e.g. an aggressive salesperson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggression#In_humans

In other words, Just like the lion hunts the Zebra, what Hamilton is doing is part of his job. He is not intentionally driving people off the track to harm them.

[kalinka]

During a very wet race, I can't remember the year or race. Maybe the Japan or China Grand Prix, where Hamilton spun out onto the gravel and was craned back on the track to continue racing while other cars were left stranded. Ten years of Formula One watching, I have never seen a driver craned back onto the track so that he can continue racing.

Just watch this. This happened in 2003. I didn't like it back then, but it was a precedence, and since then it was believed that it's ok to do so on safety grounds. If the engine is running, the safest and quickest way to clear the track is indeed pushing the car back on track. Though he's not craned back, just pushed back....very similar situation. Of course it was at Nurburgring, and I'm not sure the stewards would do the same for other drivers

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyVJJrK ... D22DDF6F83[/youtube]

+ I was a Montoya fan back then

[Fil]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyVJJrK ... D22DDF6F83[/youtube]

At 1m48 - Is that a young Vettel watching on in the Ferrari pits??

[Tufty]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyVJJrK ... D22DDF6F83[/youtube]

At 1m48 - Is that a young Vettel watching on in the Ferrari pits??

No, looks Oriental to me. That said I see what you mean, scary likeness from that shot!

[bergzy]

Finally found some pictures of Hamilton beaching his car:



Of course, I am at best an armchair observer but, imo, Hamilton and his car doesn't look like it was in a similar dangerous position that Schumi was in.

And here is Hamilton being literally craned back on the track.



Thank you for the schumi link. I was surprised, as were the announcers, that he was being pushed back on the track.

[kalinka]

I wasn't surprised, I was angry The similarity is that I think Hamilton's engine was the only running engine there, so considering how much work the stewards had to do with other cars ( I see there at least 4 other cars with stopped engines ), the fastest solution was to crane him back.
As for the topic. I found that Hamilton and Montoya has very similar driving styles ( that's why I like them ). Though Montoya didn't became a WDC, I remember those times when he was in F1, because he delivered the best action back then. It would be interesting to see a penalty record for both. As it would be interesting to know in how many incidents/collisions were they involved. IIRC 10 years ago the driver-trough for collision was a very rare punishment. Anyone got records for penalty numbers for (let's say) last 10 years ?

[beelsebob]

During a very wet race, I can't remember the year or race. Maybe the Japan or China Grand Prix, where Hamilton spun out onto the gravel and was craned back on the track to continue racing while other cars were left stranded. Ten years of Formula One watching, I have never seen a driver craned back onto the track so that he can continue racing.

Just watch this. This happened in 2003. I didn't like it back then, but it was a precedence, and since then it was believed that it's ok to do so on safety grounds. If the engine is running, the safest and quickest way to clear the track is indeed pushing the car back on track. Though he's not craned back, just pushed back....very similar situation. Of course it was at Nurburgring, and I'm not sure the stewards would do the same for other drivers

Not forgetting the most important example of this – 1989, Sazuka.

[Gerhard Berger]

During a very wet race, I can't remember the year or race. Maybe the Japan or China Grand Prix, where Hamilton spun out onto the gravel and was craned back on the track to continue racing while other cars were left stranded. Ten years of Formula One watching, I have never seen a driver craned back onto the track so that he can continue racing.

Just watch this. This happened in 2003. I didn't like it back then, but it was a precedence, and since then it was believed that it's ok to do so on safety grounds. If the engine is running, the safest and quickest way to clear the track is indeed pushing the car back on track. Though he's not craned back, just pushed back....very similar situation. Of course it was at Nurburgring, and I'm not sure the stewards would do the same for other drivers

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyVJJrK ... D22DDF6F83[/youtube]

+ I was a Montoya fan back then

Who is the guy in the shorts and t-shirt who helps push Schumacher back on track?

[PlatinumZealot]

Thank you for the schumi link. I was surprised, as were the announcers, that he was being pushed back on the track.

Hamilton is highly praised in Germany. It's like helping the king back onto the throne to those marshals.

[bizadfar]

I wasn't surprised, I was angry The similarity is that I think Hamilton's engine was the only running engine there, so considering how much work the stewards had to do with other cars ( I see there at least 4 other cars with stopped engines ), the fastest solution was to crane him back.
As for the topic. I found that Hamilton and Montoya has very similar driving styles ( that's why I like them ). Though Montoya didn't became a WDC, I remember those times when he was in F1, because he delivered the best action back then. It would be interesting to see a penalty record for both. As it would be interesting to know in how many incidents/collisions were they involved. IIRC 10 years ago the driver-trough for collision was a very rare punishment. Anyone got records for penalty numbers for (let's say) last 10 years ?

Quickest solution is marshall telling him to cut it.

[raymondu999]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyVJJrK ... D22DDF6F83[/youtube]

At 1m48 - Is that a young Vettel watching on in the Ferrari pits??

No, looks Oriental to me. That said I see what you mean, scary likeness from that shot!

I think it is actually. Look at the cap. It's a red bull cap. Bear in mind back then rb didn't have a team. He could be there as schumi's guest

[mnmracer]

At 1m48 - Is that a young Vettel watching on in the Ferrari pits??

No, looks Oriental to me. That said I see what you mean, scary likeness from that shot!

I think it is actually. Look at the cap. It's a red bull cap. Bear in mind back then rb didn't have a team. He could be there as schumi's guest

Vettel was 14 at the time. He doesn't look 14.

[raymondu999]

Actually Seb would be 16 that year. This was 2003, was it not?

[bizadfar]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyVJJrK ... D22DDF6F83[/youtube]

At 1m48 - Is that a young Vettel watching on in the Ferrari pits??

No, looks Oriental to me. That said I see what you mean, scary likeness from that shot!

What is disappointing back then is that Ross Brawn called Montoya a classless overtaker. In the V10 high front wing era he was the overtaking king. Yeah, he got into incidents and people criticized him just like they are to Lewis now. At least he tried to defy odds, and many times he pulled off brilliant overtakes which were, for many F1 fans, great deal of entertainment and talent.