Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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chepoi
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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http://planetf1.com/driver/18227/760850 ... Bull-lost-
'McLaren didn't win, Red Bull lost'


Christian Horner opted for arrogant over magnanimous when faced with defeat, saying McLaren won in Australia because Red Bull underperformed.

After dominating the world of Formula One last season, Red Bull came crashing down this weekend in Melbourne where McLaren's Lewis Hamilton claimed pole and Jenson Button the race victory.

And although Red Bull had a better Sunday than they did Saturday, finishing second and fourth in the race as opposed to fifth and sixth in qualifying, Horner is adamant his outfit is actually faster than McLaren.

"It was a good recovery and we had good pace in the race," said the Red Bull team boss.

"We were right on same pace as the McLarens and could have been faster.

"Overall it was a good recovery.

"I think we underperformed rather than McLaren being overly strong and that is the story - we can prove it next time we race."
just wondering what Horner will say if they lost again in Sepang

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raymondu999
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Planet F1. Do you seriously read that gunk?

Horner said "I think we underperformed rather than McLaren being overly strong." That just says, "We're not 8 tenths off. We're closer than that - we just did a rubbish job of unlocking that from the car this weekend."

Planet F1? Don't expect to get many people on your side if you quote Planet F1 mate. That is a website that should be wiped off the face of the earth.
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Alexgtt
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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GrizzleBoy wrote:
shelly wrote:Whitmarsh has said Button was marginal on fuel and had to go fuel save mode form lap 8 on.

Being lighter in fuel explains his strong initial pace, when he was able to open a wide gap to hamilton. Afetr that, tha advantage of being lighter and ha disadvantage of a "eco" map have somehow compansated.

I think they could have fuelled him lighter by strategy, not by mistake, considering the high probability of a saefty car in melbourne.

The would have run leaner and leaner maps until the sc to exit and make the strategy work. If the sc did not come out, probably button would have had to gi slower by the end; but it has, and he has won.

What I do not understand, either if underfuelling was delibarte or not, is why whitmarsh made an official statement on that: if he did not say anything, no one would have noticed, so why drive attention to button fuel levels? There was no slowing down/ team order/ retirement to find an excuse for.
People are making a fuss about Red Bull catching up to the McLarens later on in the race.

They obviously want to sell the idea that they weren't even pushing, as if to say "we were leading easily, if the gap became too small, we could have pushed some more", which is actually precisely what happened.

Vettel got down to a 1 second gap from Hamilton on the second stint on softs, Hamilton began to pull away to create and maintain a 2 second gap while on them mediums once he got past the slower car traffic he was released behind after his first stop.

Vettel set a fast lap on the last stint after the safety car and was trying to catch Button, so Button went even faster and returned the favour.

And as I've said before, fuel saving mode isn't just for saving fuel.

Not running the engine right to the edge of its performance in one race, means you have a fresher, more reliable and efficient engine in the next race.
This is spot on. The gap was managed as JB went as fast as he needed to go and no more. Just like the restart when he cleared of immediately for a few laps and then backed off to hold the gap. It's exactly what SV did all last year.

The McL are fast and they knew it from the start. The contentment in the garage was clear to see from Friday. What is a surprise is how LH performed in an obviously quick car. He should have been shadowing JB all the way.

Red Bull looked much better in the race but I get the feeling they are in McL's position from last year. Let's see what the do on a proper track next weekend.

Ferrari have got some work to do but I'm sure they'll pull something out the bag by mid-season. FA was epic. I reckon he's gone if they don't show something this year.

Merc were a big let down. Was really hoping they'd do it in the race but the pace seemed to drain away just like last year. Again, let's see Sepang before we write them off.

Very encouraged by Williams. I could see in testing how that car has come on. Feel sorry for RB. He's just missed a good car. :cry: Don't blame Mal too much and the season is long. Just wish he'd backed it off a bit in the last couple of laps as FA is way too difficult to pass on that track, even in a dog of a car.

Sauber looked OK but I wish they'd put a normal tyre strategy on the damn car.

Lotus looked great. Looking forward to KR getting it together.

STR about where expected. Bit of experience for their new drivers and they will be interesting to watch.

FI was another let down.

Caterham didn't look too good. Was hoping they'd properly hit mid-field but they were way off in qualy and race.

Marussian were quite close to Caterham and big respect for not being as bad as I expected.

HRT were woefull in every respect. Is it really worth bothering when things are that bad. An embarrassment is not even close! :shock:

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Vasco
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Hey Guys, not sure if this was posted before. I found this interesting quote from Hamilton:

"Then, at the end of the race, I wasn’t able to close the gap to Seb – he was very quick on the straights which meant that it was always going to be difficult to pass him"

How was Vettel quick in the straights relative to Hamiton. When I checked the qualifying speed traps, Red Bull were far behind Mclaren in the speed traps(~ 10 kph). I wonder if both red bulls had KERS issues (not only Webber). This affected their straight line speed in qualifying but they were probably able to sort it out for the race. Without the KERS issues, they should have been right up there with Mclaren in qualifying, and to be honest it seemed like they were able to look after their tyres better in the race which leads me to believe that RBR might have had a slightly faster package than Mclaren.

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raymondu999
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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I think possibly - the Red Bulls geared for the race - and still achieved the same top speed in the race, while the others became slower. Like Monza last year.
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lebesset
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Dann wrote:Isn't that has been McLaren's long-time SOP, whoever is leading will have the advantage to pit first?
+2

leader gets the choice is the McL way

hamilton told his pit that the tyres were starting to go and was informed that he needed more laps , presumably to make the 2 stop strategy work
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

Pup
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Vasco wrote:Hey Guys, not sure if this was posted before. I found this interesting quote from Hamilton:

"Then, at the end of the race, I wasn’t able to close the gap to Seb – he was very quick on the straights which meant that it was always going to be difficult to pass him"

How was Vettel quick in the straights relative to Hamiton. When I checked the qualifying speed traps, Red Bull were far behind Mclaren in the speed traps(~ 10 kph).
I think 'quick' doesn't necessarily mean 'quicker'. It's just that Vettel was quick enough to make it difficult/impossible to pass. Also, you've got to account for acceleration.

For example, if the Red Bull were geared a bit shorter than the McLaren, then they'd have a lower ultimate speed, but then they might well accelerate to that speed quicker than the McLaren. Vettel might pull a bit of a gap at the start of the straight, and then Hamilton would begin to eat back into that gap later in the straight. So Hamilton might have been faster, just that he couldn't get close enough to Vettel in time to pull off a pass.

In fact, it's entirely possible that a car with a higher top speed will actually be slower down the straight.

Adrian Newby
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Team orders are legal, so just tell the drivers they can pit any time they want, but if they trade places on the track due to undercut, they must give it back. That would get rid of the whining.

Pup
Pup
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Ironically, though, it was McLaren's decision to stack their pit stop that cost Hamilton a spot. Just bad luck of the safety car timing.

I suspect that McLaren have to do a lot of hand holding with Hamilton during the race. He seems very quick to demand new tires, and the team too often has got to tell him essentially "Sorry, we've got the data and you don't - so if you pit now you're going to screw yourself just like you have in the past."

In fact, I think the main difficulty between Hamilton and the team is that there seems to be a general lack of trust between the driver and the pit wall.
Last edited by Pup on 19 Mar 2012, 18:05, edited 1 time in total.

Polarbear
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Is nice to see some people giving Marussia the credit they deserve following a strong debut performance of the MR01 in Australia.

To manage a 2 car finish, and to be easily within the 107% in qualifying when the car had only run 200km prior to last weekend is a real achievement.

Marussia have definately improved over the winter, despite their well publicised issues.

Well done Marussia, lets hope for a wet race in Sepang.

GrizzleBoy
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Pup wrote:Ironically, though, it was McLaren's decision to stack their pit stop that cost Hamilton a spot. Just bad luck of the safety car timing.

I suspect that McLaren have to do a lot of hand holding with Hamilton during the race. He seems very quick to demand new tires, and the team too often has got to tell him essentially "Sorry, we've got the data and you don't - so if you pit now you're going to screw yourself just like you have in the past."

In fact, I think the main difficulty between Hamilton and the team is that there seems to be a general lack of trust between the driver and the pit wall.
The horrible part about what you just posted, is that McLaren decided to bring Lewis in and release him with a racing, unyielding Sauber to deal with when he got out of the pit and allowed Button to gain an 11 second lead over him, as well as bringing Vettel down to a 1 second gap behind him on warm, faster options tyres.

So while you're talking as though Lewis should just trust his pit wall and everything will be fine, his pit wall and all that "data" they have, cost him any chance of getting anywhere near the front at the later parts of the race due to the following:

1.
They chose to release him behind slower traffic who weren't under blue flag conditions.

2.
The slower cars in front on Hamilton took Buttons lead over him from 3-4 seonds to 11.

3.
That then lead to Vettel closing in on him with a set of faster soft tyres, while Hamilton was wearing a pair of new/cold/slower mediums.

4.
That lead to Hamilton having to turn up his engine in order to create and maintain a safety gap of 2+ seconds over Vettel to stay out of the DRS/pressure zone. (How else do you explain Hamilton pulling away on slower tyres?).

5.
That lead to having less fuel in the tank to deal with the safety car putting Vettel (who had a car he could obviously push with) in front of him and Webber behind him in the DRS zone.


So if you're going to say that Hamilton doesn't trust the wall and that he screws himself for not listening to them, this race is a very bad supporting argument as the wall basically screwed his race with a little bit of bad luck thrown in there.

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Onch
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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I think the window for the first stop is quite narrow.
Had they left Lewis in earlier he would have had tyre problems at the end of the race. On the other hand waiting longer his tyres would have gone completely off. So he would have still come out behind traffic, and possibly even behind Vettel.

As for the fuel miscalculation, I don't believe a word of it.
That is just playing mind games with the other teams (oh! We realised the handbrake was still on! :mrgreen: )

foxmulder_ms
foxmulder_ms
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Come on guys, Hamilton "lost" the second position due to late pitstops and safety car, it wasn't Vettel "win" it.

Also, I really think Redbull was playing it dirty during safety car and pit stops. They throw their man in front of Button and Lewis's car just to slow them down at pit stops. Clearly, Vettel didn't slow down a bit during safety car deployement which was again rather dirty.

I don't know whether any of these were illegal but they were sure not fair play.

Gerhard Berger
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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foxmulder_ms wrote:Come on guys, Hamilton "lost" the second position due to late pitstops and safety car, it wasn't Vettel "win" it.

Also, I really think Redbull was playing it dirty during safety car and pit stops. They throw their man in front of Button and Lewis's car just to slow them down at pit stops. Clearly, Vettel didn't slow down a bit during safety car deployement which was again rather dirty.

I don't know whether any of these were illegal but they were sure not fair play.
I always thought throwing a "dummy" in the pitlane was illegal, and it's not the first time they've done it.

Mandrake
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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foxmulder_ms wrote:Come on guys, Hamilton "lost" the second position due to late pitstops and safety car, it wasn't Vettel "win" it.

Also, I really think Redbull was playing it dirty during safety car and pit stops. They throw their man in front of Button and Lewis's car just to slow them down at pit stops. Clearly, Vettel didn't slow down a bit during safety car deployement which was again rather dirty.

I don't know whether any of these were illegal but they were sure not fair play.
Did you actually bother to read anything that's been written here? Everyone slowed down after sc deployment. Everything is also monitored by the fia and mclaren would be quick to protest if necessary