Valtteri Bottas......

[AlexD0e]

hahaha

[Websta]

I wouldn't read into practise session times very far. Last year with STR was a different story as it was pretty much a shoot out between Ricciardo and Buemi/Algeursuari. I don't understand why people are so quick to dismiss Senna. He dragged a lot of performance out of the Renault last year and I expect to see him at least matching Maldonado. And the best drivers not racing in F1 this year are Robert Wickens and Jules Bianchi. Maybe Bottas should have a go at GP2 first.

[Websta]

But both Maldonado and Senna have proven their worth in more competitive championships than Bottas has, despite being "pay drivers". Just remember that there are pay drivers like Fernando Alonso and pay drivers like Sakon Yammamoto. Also remember that Nico Hulkenburg didn't do anything overwhelming in a competitive Williams until he grabbed pole in Brazil - my point being that it is difficult to judge a driver's talent as an outsider until it slaps you in the face. There's no denying Bottas' talent though, but it is a bit premature to elevate him to an F1 seat so soon - Kimi Raikkonen he is not.

[Websta]

I'm sure when you say "have proven their worth in more competitive championships" you mean GP2. Racing in GP2 is is great but it really doesn't matter. It's not the only way to get into F1. Only one GP2 champion has ever been a F1 champion and his name is Lewis Hamilton. Schumacher, Alonso, Button, Raikkonen, and Vettel never raced in GP2 and they have all done just fine.

My point was that Bottas has beaten a bunch of no-names to a GP3 title - he was competing with 17 year olds (who managed to win races). If racing in GP2 really doesn't matter as you put it, then racing in GP3 barely matters at all. I suspect the reason that Alonso, Schumacher, Button and Raikkonen didn't compete in GP2 has something to do with the fact that it didn't exist when they weren't competing in F1. The vast majority of drivers that graduate to F1 come from GP2 nowadays and they happen to be some of the most competitive drivers as well.

Nico Hulkenburg is a crappy driver too, Barrichello wiped the floor with him in 2010 and we all know he isn't wasn't as competative as he used to be. lol

Wow...

Alonso is a special case when it comes to pay drivers. Rarely do pay drivers ever make it but he made a good choice to be a Test driver for Renault for a year and he got recognized by Flavio Briatore.

Not my point at all. He is a pay-driver now with Ferrari as he brought Santander sponsorship money to the team. Would they employ him without it? Absolutely. My point is that sponsorship money that a driver brings can sometimes be icing on a cake, not the cake itself. In the case of many current pay drivers, I believe they have enough talent to justify being in F1 even if the deal maker was money. Drivers with "proper" talent, like Paul Di Resta, Nico Hulkenburg, Daniel Ricciardo and JEV, manage to find their ways into F1 anyway so I wouldn't say that pay drivers are taking anyone's jobs.

Bruno Senna is one of those lucky drivers that has more money than talent. If you think Senna is good.....please tell me in what catagory because i don't see it. Is it in qualifying? What about race pace? Is he good at tyre conservation? How about his consistency? Is he easy on the car? What about him as a team player? How about passing? Is he a master at car setup? Or is he a rain master? I don't know

I don't think he's the best driver to ever line up on the grid, but he definitely made me sit up and take notice when he qualified 7th on debut for Renault last year in very tricky conditions. You can't read into his 2010 performances very far considering how poor and volatile the HRT was.

Frankly, you just don't know what you are talking about. You lost me at "GP2 doesn't really matter" and "Hulkenburg is a crappy driver." If Hulkenburg, who unlike Bottas, managed to win the F3 Euroseries title and GP2 title, all at a younger age, is "crappy", then this Bottas guy better win the WDC on his debut in F1.

[SchumiSutil]

You can't read into his 2010 performances very far considering how poor and volatile the HRT was.

Sorry, but being so consistantly matched or outqualified by the likes of Yamamoto or Chandock, not to mention that he was 1.2s off Christian Klien in Singapore worth something for me.
He just one of the less talented driver who became an F1 driver from the whole decade.

He will be overshadow by Maldonado the whole year I guess.

[AlexD0e]

My point was that Bottas has beaten a bunch of no-names to a GP3 title

Every professional driver has to beat a bunch of no-name drivers to get to the top. In every series so far Bottas proved he was a competative driver. He has done it with an impressive 31 wins to his name. Bruno Senna had only 12 wins over the same stretch of time with the same crappy no-name drivers. Please tell me what Championship Bruno Senna won that shows he is better than Bottas?

Alonso, Schumacher, Button and Raikkonen didn't compete in GP2 has something to do with the fact that it didn't exist when they weren't competing in F1

Duh, that was my point that you clearly missed! hahaha
I like how you conveniently took away Vettels name because you have no reponse for that. LOL

I don't think he's the best driver to ever line up on the grid, but he definitely made me sit up and take notice when he qualified 7th on debut for Renault last year

Did you also notice he got destroyed by Petrov that year or do you only remember the 7th place qualifying? Right now Senna's career highlight is him placing 9th place at Monza for an AWESOME 2 championship points. Hey looks like your buddy got out qualified by Maldonado, AGAIN!!! hahaha

[Websta]

My point was that Bottas has beaten a bunch of no-names to a GP3 title

Every professional driver has to beat a bunch of no-name drivers to get to the top. In every series so far Bottas proved he was a competative driver. He has done it with an impressive 31 wins to his name. Bruno Senna had only 12 wins over the same stretch of time with the same crappy no-name drivers. Please tell me what Championship Bruno Senna won that shows he is better than Bottas?

Bottas is obviously talented, no argument there. My argument has also never been that Senna is more talented, it's that Bottas is too inexperienced to compete in F1. I believe a driver has to perform well against a highly competitive field to be ready for F1 - now some may disagree, but I believe a championship such as GP3 (designed as a feeder for GP2) is not as competitive as GP2 or the upper tier World Series by Renault championships. Actually, I doubt many would disagree.

Alonso, Schumacher, Button and Raikkonen didn't compete in GP2 has something to do with the fact that it didn't exist when they weren't competing in F1

Duh, that was my point that you clearly missed! hahaha
I like how you conveniently took away Vettels name because you have no reponse for that. LOL

You do realise that the absence of GP2 back then means that the other series were more competitive and thus more relevant? They also were able to do a lot of testing with F1 teams back then which is no longer possible. Entry into F1 has changed a lot. And Sebastian Vettel was on his way to winning the Renault 3.5 series before his season was cut short by a call up to F1. LOL!1!!1

http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/03/14/petro ... ay-driver/

I don't think he's the best driver to ever line up on the grid, but he definitely made me sit up and take notice when he qualified 7th on debut for Renault last year

Did you also notice he got destroyed by Petrov that year or do you only remember the 7th place qualifying? Right now Senna's career highlight is him placing 9th place at Monza for an AWESOME 2 championship points.

It was 4/4 between Petrov and Senna last year in qualifying IIRC - after Senna had virtually no prior driving time in the car and only had limited experience on the Pirelli tyres, and Petrov had been racing with the team for 2 seasons. I wouldn't describe Petrov's performance as "destroying" him as Petrov hardly set the world on fire, but I can't deny that he performed better in the races. How much of the performance gap was circumstantial is debatable. But then, 9th place was Petrov's highest placing whilst Senna was his team mate - a feat which you point out that Senna matched at Monza.

Hey looks like your buddy got out qualified by Maldonado, AGAIN!!! hahaha

I am neither a fan of Bruno Senna, nor surprised that Maldonado is performing well.

[zoro_f1]

i think bottas is better than maldonado and senna too.

[raymondu999]

I think it's too early to talk on Bottas - but he's got talent. I don't know if he's a Hamilton or a Vettel; but I think he's good enough to get a place in F1 on merit.

Like I said in another thread a while back - a pay driver is simply someone who wouldn't be hired without sponsorship support. Clear as day :p

[GTROM]

I suspect the reason that Alonso, Schumacher, Button and Raikkonen didn't compete in GP2 has something to do with the fact that it didn't exist when they weren't competing in F1. The vast majority of drivers that graduate to F1 come from GP2 nowadays and they happen to be some of the most competitive drivers as well.

True, GP2 didn't exist - what was the equivalent step was F3000 - which Button and Raikkonen did not compete in but stepped into F1 directly from F3 (Button) and... Raikkonen from Formula Renault! (never competed in F3)... (Alonso drove in F3000, and SChumacher drove one race in the Japanese F3000 series, largely he came to F1 through sportscar racing) - the step from F3 to F1, not to mention Formula Renault (talent and speed-wise) was arguably bigger than from GP3... the "pedigree steps" of reaching F1 are manyfold and trying to compare the significance of one series to the next and make some prediction of F1 talent based on that is impossible. I'm not comparing Raikkonen to Bottas but I remember well how outraged many fans were that he had not "earned" his way through F3 and F3000, and not competed with the biggest talents (the Bruno Junqueiras of that era).

[Websta]

I suspect the reason that Alonso, Schumacher, Button and Raikkonen didn't compete in GP2 has something to do with the fact that it didn't exist when they weren't competing in F1. The vast majority of drivers that graduate to F1 come from GP2 nowadays and they happen to be some of the most competitive drivers as well.

True, GP2 didn't exist - what was the equivalent step was F3000 - which Button and Raikkonen did not compete in but stepped into F1 directly from F3 (Button) and... Raikkonen from Formula Renault! (never competed in F3)... (Alonso drove in F3000, and SChumacher drove one race in the Japanese F3000 series, largely he came to F1 through sportscar racing) - the step from F3 to F1, not to mention Formula Renault (talent and speed-wise) was arguably bigger than from GP3... the "pedigree steps" of reaching F1 are manyfold and trying to compare the significance of one series to the next and make some prediction of F1 talent based on that is impossible. I'm not comparing Raikkonen to Bottas but I remember well how outraged many fans were that he had not "earned" his way through F3 and F3000, and not competed with the biggest talents (the Bruno Junqueiras of that era).

I agree, I touched on this in my second comment.

[AlexD0e]

hahaha

[ESPImperium]

Im expecting to see Bottas get a race seat before the end of the year. From the little i saw from his GP3 days he is able to step into F1 at a slightly lower level. In the same car he is showing that Maldanado is good, but he is the real deal. Id like to see Pastor give his car over to him to see what Bottas to Senna is like.

Id like to see Senna in the mix for points for a sting of races. I really want him to do well this year, he deserves a propper go in F1, in 2009 he was pushed aside for Rubens at Brawn as they needed an experienced pair of hands for that car. 2010 he was given a dog that he dragged kicking and screaming, but fell out with Kolles over a misplaced email or something critisising him for not updating the F110. In 2011 he opted to build, but when given his chance showed he has good single lap pace in Quali and dragged the car in Monza to a points paying place. He is very technichally savvy, having experienced a bad car and a good one he knows what should be coming from the car.

Back to Bottas, id expect him to get a race seat for the last few races fcr Williams or more probably buy Karethekeyns seat mid season so he can do a Riccardo. As that half season last year at Hispania has really made Riccardo a good driver in my opinion. It gave him a grounding in the sport, as he experienced a good car in the STR6 then went to a comparitive dog in the F111. Sometimes the drivers that have expewrienced a bad car before a good one comes allong are all the better for it. And this could be what Bottas is looking for in the medium to long term this year, get FP1 seats, then get a seat at Hispania and then develop the F1 race craft.

This is the point that i feel that one driver at the sharp end is lacking in his driving, he has only had good cars, the rest have spent a season or longer in poorer cars and when those days come allong they can fall back on those days and drag a result out of an otherwise crap day batteling in the lower mid pack hoping for a P13 at best, instead they can go from a P16 to a P6 for instance.

I am of the opinion that if Bottas can experience a poor car, he will be finally ready for his first season in F1 next year and not spend 2 years in GP2 as GP2 is starting to become like a hole for drivers that are ready for F1, but just cant make that extra half step to be F1 ready. In there id only take 3 or 4 drivers at present for a FP1 seat and only about 2 for a race seat. Drivers are nor realising this and looking at other series like GP3 and more importantly WSBFR 3.5 to make the step as they can also get a FP1 seat as well this way. Bird, Bianchi, Rossi, Williamson and Aleshin are all drivers id happily put in a F1 race tomorrow if i had the chance and have no worries. Red Bull have had no issues with FR3.5 as a better feeder series than GP2 or GP3, Alguersauri, Riccardo and Vergne have all made that step now succesfully.

That is where id like to see Bottas do a race or two if i could this year to keep his race eye sharp.

Bottas will be in a Williams seat in 2013, but who will he replace, this is what Senna has to do, make his points tally 20% more than Maldanado. This makes it about sheer money versus some budget and a tallent.

One thing is for sure, this is a year for Bottas to learn, Senna to show what he is about his future as a F1 driver and Maldanado to finally unlock his speed that brought him a GP2 title against a prodigal Perez. Williams have got management job on their hands to keep all happy, one thing they dont have to worry about is motivation in their driver community.

[Nando]

I wouldn't read into practise session times very far. Last year with STR was a different story as it was pretty much a shoot out between Ricciardo and Buemi/Algeursuari. I don't understand why people are so quick to dismiss Senna. He dragged a lot of performance out of the Renault last year and I expect to see him at least matching Maldonado. And the best drivers not racing in F1 this year are Robert Wickens and Jules Bianchi. Maybe Bottas should have a go at GP2 first.

No the best driver not racing this year is Robert Kubica.

Everyone else just fades in comparison to a future world champion in the name of Kubica.

[AlexD0e]

hahaha