2012 Canadian GP - Gilles Villeneuve

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marcush.
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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what is SETUP? to me it´s changing geometry and components to tailor/ adapt the car to the drivers ,conditions and track needs .
This may or may not result in different major parts mounted to the car .
So the differentiation is flowing and not as clear cut as some guys here may want it .setup is not something you can fill in a tank as needed.
Usually as you reach the end of adjustment range you start asking for different parts to get back adjustment range .Maybe at the expense of other geometry hardpoints but those maybe less important on your way ....

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fritticaldi
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Ferrari pit strategy FRIED (Pat Fry). Alonso lost a staggering 28 seconds in the last 20 laps. Incompetence anyone :shock:

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flynfrog
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Ray wrote:
QLDriver wrote:I think it's hard to 'blame' DRS - at 4 seconds a lap slower than your challenger, there's NO way you're going to keep them behind.

Richly deserved by Hamilton.
When the only effort you have to put forth to pass a driver is pushing a button on your steering wheel, yes there is blame for it. It's utter bullshit that even overtaking on straights in Formula 1 has come down to who gets to push a button and who doesn't. Tires have absolutely nothing to do with going faster on a straight, and any driver can ruin his tires without any input of design change from Pirelli. Pirelli have no control over the FIA making stupid decision like having DRS. Tires got the drivers to the rear of the driver(s) they were trying to pass, but some stupid gimmick let them fly right past without so much as a wave. DRS is bullshit and it needs to be gotten rid of.
I agree Ray as fans we were cheated out of two epic battles watching Hamilton on fresh tires try to get past vettel and Alsonso instead we got DRS BS.

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FrukostScones
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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fritticaldi wrote:Ferrari pit strategy FRIED (Pat Fry). Alonso lost a staggering 28 seconds in the last 20 laps. Incompetence anyone :shock:
Frying is the most underrated art of cooking!


Even without DRS they would not have been able to defend themselves, they were 3sec slower and the straight is long. (VET and ALO had no traction at all anymore, HAM was in the gear box 50 meters after the exit of the turn, nothing was robbed.)
proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SU_2BicQio
Last edited by FrukostScones on 11 Jun 2012, 00:31, edited 1 time in total.
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beelsebob
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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flynfrog wrote:
Ray wrote:
QLDriver wrote:I think it's hard to 'blame' DRS - at 4 seconds a lap slower than your challenger, there's NO way you're going to keep them behind.

Richly deserved by Hamilton.
When the only effort you have to put forth to pass a driver is pushing a button on your steering wheel, yes there is blame for it. It's utter bullshit that even overtaking on straights in Formula 1 has come down to who gets to push a button and who doesn't. Tires have absolutely nothing to do with going faster on a straight, and any driver can ruin his tires without any input of design change from Pirelli. Pirelli have no control over the FIA making stupid decision like having DRS. Tires got the drivers to the rear of the driver(s) they were trying to pass, but some stupid gimmick let them fly right past without so much as a wave. DRS is bullshit and it needs to be gotten rid of.
I agree Ray as fans we were cheated out of two epic battles watching Hamilton on fresh tires try to get past vettel and Alsonso instead we got DRS BS.
Like it would have taken much longer without DRS... I'm pretty sure Hamilton would have had Vettel even without DRS that lap. I doubt he'd have got alonso that lap, but I'm sure he would have the lap after.

mx_tifoso
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Assuming he would have gotten by sooner or later is much better than blowing by without any effort. DRS is ridiculous and is another gimmick for the noob fans.

Anyways, here is Fernando Alonso's defense of his strategy:
"I feel good. We tried to win the race. With 18 laps to go Hamilton stopped and we either stayed out and covered Sebastian Vettel or we stopped with him and see what happened.

"If we had stopped with Hamilton we would have returned in fourth and then with [Romain] Grosjean's degradation we would have finished fourth in the race and it would have been a huge mistake to stop. But now it seems the mistake was ours and Vettel's, so somebody had to get it wrong when there's a stop with 18 laps to go.

"We made the decision to try to win the race and it didn't work out, not because of the strategy, but because of the tyre degradation. I want that to be very clear because there will be confusion tomorrow, from people who don't understand the race.

"We stopped on the same lap as Grosjean, as he finished second with the same laptimes as Hamilton. So it's not about stopping with Hamilton or deciding not to stop, or stopping once or twice. The problem is that Grosjean did 55 laps with the tyres with a good pace and we did 45. That's the only problem.

It's all positive. The strategy we tried was positive, the result was positive and, again, the points scored are positive.

"No one is going to win the championship in the seventh race, there's a lot left. But race by race, if you don't score strong points you may start to lose it. So when it comes to points for the championship it's another very good weekend.

"We know Canada is a McLaren circuit. It has won a lot here and Hamilton has scored most pole positions. When we caught the plane to Canada I don't think anyone thought about winning the race, or maybe about finishing second. We are talking about having settled for third or fourth. We are talking about 12 or 15 points tops. We have 10. Perfect."
:wink:
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FrukostScones
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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He went for the pass without having activated DRS yet and he could have braked much later due to his fresher tyres. Even without DRS it would have taken one attempt.

better version:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvtKvleah38[/youtube]

he is besides him before activating DRS. No doubt he would have passed him without it. Yes, it looks a bit easy when he zooms past after DRS activation. And yes it robbed some excitement but maybe also avoided a crash.
Last edited by FrukostScones on 11 Jun 2012, 01:13, edited 2 times in total.
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Ray
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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beelsebob wrote: Like it would have taken much longer without DRS... I'm pretty sure Hamilton would have had Vettel even without DRS that lap. I doubt he'd have got alonso that lap, but I'm sure he would have the lap after.
That's true, there was very very little doubt Lewis would've passed them easily sooner rather than later, but I'd rather see him have to earn the positions than push a button and go whistling on by.

nacho
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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I am actually starting to think if there is something wrong in the chassis of Button's car or some other part they haven't noticed, I mean he was at one point 2 seconds a lap slower than Hamilton.

I am still wondering if Kimi was just slow or did the strategy fry him too, he did get stuck behind cars a lot, first Button and then after pit stop and then everyone dropped in front of him.

sknguy
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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I too feel a bit robbed of seeing some decent battles. DRS does seem necessary at some circuits. But at circuit Gilles Villeneuve, there's actually three decent overtaking opportunities. Me thinks KERS on its own should've sufficed.

Just read the Alonso quote posted by mx-tifoso... and that's a good point made by Alonso. But I still feel DRS robbed the excitement out of this race. But I did get a chuckle seeing Lewis's surprised look when he saw who was coming to the awards ceremony.

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fritticaldi
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Thanks mx tifoso for Alonso's post race comments. Makes you realise how close this championship is.

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Ray
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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FrukostScones wrote:He is besides him before activating DRS. No doubt he would have passed him without it. Yes, it looks a bit easy when he zooms past after DRS activation. And yes it robbed some excitement but maybe also avoided a crash.
Without DRS do you think he would have been 2+ car lengths ahead by the braking zone? I doubt it. He would've passed him there without DRS, but he most likely wouldn't have been that many lengths ahead by the braking zone and would have had to be slightly defensive rather than sailing into the sunset. It was a great race, a great drive by Lewis, but DRS allowed too many easy passes when they should have been a little more difficult even with the tire performance difference. The Pirelli lottery combined with a push to pass just ruined some potential battles even if they were for maybe half a lap.

beelsebob
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Ray wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:He is besides him before activating DRS. No doubt he would have passed him without it. Yes, it looks a bit easy when he zooms past after DRS activation. And yes it robbed some excitement but maybe also avoided a crash.
Without DRS do you think he would have been 2+ car lengths ahead by the braking zone? I doubt it. He would've passed him there without DRS, but he most likely wouldn't have been that many lengths ahead by the braking zone and would have had to be slightly defensive rather than sailing into the sunset. It was a great race, a great drive by Lewis, but DRS allowed too many easy passes when they should have been a little more difficult even with the tire performance difference. The Pirelli lottery combined with a push to pass just ruined some potential battles even if they were for maybe half a lap.
Given that he was about 10 car lengths clear by the start/finish line, yes I really do think he would have gained that much in the breaking zone with or without DRS.

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Ray
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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beelsebob wrote: Given that he was about 10 car lengths clear by the start/finish line, yes I really do think he would have gained that much in the breaking zone with or without DRS.
Not by the end of the back straightaway. At least I don't think so. He got the jump on his out of the chicane but those 10 lengths came from his two lengths in the braking zone and then the jump from the two transitions in the very last chicane as well as the big one at the beginning of the straight. That's three initial acceleration zone advantages he had and even with the jump on the big chicane aero difference between the McLaren and the Ferrari aren't that big on the straights. I'm not saying that the McLaren didn't have a clear traction advantage but DRS gave him a huge jump well before the braking zone.

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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I don't agree with the call, but Ferrari gambled today, for the first time this year & it bit them in the arse. Fernando was leading the WDC in part due to a little luck but mostly because of smart sound and damn near perfect strategy. They got away from that today and lost the WDC lead. Had they pitted shortly after Lewis, Fernando would have more than likely taken 2nd. With the WDC so tight this year, these type of gambles can't happen often. It was a decent result that could have been better on one of the worse tracks for Ferrari.

Valencia will be interesting as well but the F2012 should be quite strong & quite competitive in the upcoming European GP's: Silverstone, Hockenheim, Hungary, Spa.

I expect the Championship to level out a little and the cream start to rise & stay at the top. The development race is still alive and kicking of course but there aren't many teams who are going to keep up with the Ferraris, McLarens & Red Bulls. IMHO.