The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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GrizzleBoy
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The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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I don't get it.....how can one mans KERS unit fail so many times on only one car in the team? Season after season?

Could it be different harvesting strategies/techniques?

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WhiteBlue
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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It appears he had an alternator failure. The KERS failure could have been a consequence of the alternator problem. Red Bull have a mixed device KERS. They use supercaps for for fast storage and batteries for long term storage. I reckon they may have problems with the layered energy storage management.
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Lurk
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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WhiteBlue wrote:It appears he had an alternator failure.
A brand new alternator, I must say...

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Steven
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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Indeed, a brand new alternator that is a new spec after Renault investigated the problems that led to Grosjean and Vettel DNF's at Valencia.

It is also why Red Bull is now so worried about it, as it seems the issue is not solved, and could lead to a retirement for Seb at Brazil.

RB7ate9
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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Tomba wrote:Indeed, a brand new alternator that is a new spec after Renault investigated the problems that led to Grosjean and Vettel DNF's at Valencia.

It is also why Red Bull is now so worried about it, as it seems the issue is not solved, and could lead to a retirement for Seb at Brazil.
It depends on what was installed in Vettel's car at COTA. If it was the same, then there might have been a problem with the fact that Webber ran so many more laps than Vettel in practice (Vettel, himself had issues, but I do not recall if they were related to the electrics). If there is a chance that there is a persistent problem with the new spec, then Red Bull would most likely run it on Webber's car throughout practice to test and perhaps have Vettel use it in race. This is, of course, entirely dependent on if there were any difference in the specs in the electrics between the two cars.

Otherwise, it was really disappointing, aggravating, and ridiculous that this problem persists and Webber has suffered majorly from it.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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Vettel had a water leak in FP2 and missed most of that session. Due to the AMuS report:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 56894.html
I assume that RBR evaluated a revised 2012 alternator spec on Webber's car with a view to potentially use it on Vettel's car in Brazil. Vettel most likely was on the 2011 spec which never failed.
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waynes
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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more to the point how did Webber luck into a great team?

he really is not a top team driver, he's force india at best

the sooner red bull get someone in to push Vettel the better

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Cam
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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Thats a bit harsh isnt it. You've obviously made that statement with your extensive experience driving an F1 car and inner access to how the Red Bull team function and what their individual requirements and expectations are??

He almost won the WDC in 2010, has the guts to only run on a one year deal, does enough to warrant re-signing each time and has played an integral part in developing the Red Bull car since he joined the team (his ability to punch above his weight in less than good cars was what attracted Red Bull in the first place) - or are we quick to forget the early years. Being n a team is more than being the fastest - hence Red Bull didn't want Hamilton:
'It's difficult to envisage Lewis in our team,' said Horner.
'I think he's comfortable in the environment he is in, and we're certainly comfortable with the two drivers we have. 'You have to look at the balance within the team as well,' added Horner. 'It is important to have the right balance within any team, not just with the drivers, but throughout the organisation. Whether or not it could work, who knows?
Take the hate elsewhere.
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Nando
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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waynes wrote:more to the point how did Webber luck into a great team?
Must have started watching F1 this season eh?

He was there before the good days. He was there laying the foundation when Vettel popped in at the right moment when all the hard work was done.
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Cam
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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Nando wrote:
waynes wrote:more to the point how did Webber luck into a great team?
Must have started watching F1 this season eh?

He was there before the good days. He was there laying the foundation when Vettel popped in at the right moment when all the hard work was done.
Yep. Its all too easy to forget the hard yards some drivers have to do in the lower teams to rise to the top teams. Its also all to easy to criticise without backing it up with facts or at least some educated guesses as to why and maybe some stats that lend some credibility to the statement. A nice graph showing results over the last 4 years would have been enough, but the poster chose the easy road - "He's Sh*t", isn't really worth posting.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

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Lurk
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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Lurk wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:It appears he had an alternator failure.
A brand new alternator, I must say...
Err... In fact it appears that all teams but RBR chose to run the new spec. (or Horner is lying but I don't see any reason at this point)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104395

So it was an old spec which failed. I'm wondering if they exceed the mileage ; Remy Taffin said some weeks ago that it will depends of the mileage but the switch should be done at COTA.

jdlive
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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Amazing that this persists in a well oiled team like Red Bull. Imagine if this becomes the championship decider :shock:
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...

I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.

Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."

Raptor22
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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waynes wrote:more to the point how did Webber luck into a great team?

he really is not a top team driver, he's force india at best

the sooner red bull get someone in to push Vettel the better

Sorry but Webber is probably one of the best drivers to not win a WDC yet. He's quick and always has been quick. Can you recall where he finished in his first race.... I can.
Webber on a good day is quicker and more consistent than Massa on a good day. On a bad Day Webber is much better.

mnmracer
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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Raptor22 wrote:
waynes wrote:more to the point how did Webber luck into a great team?

he really is not a top team driver, he's force india at best

the sooner red bull get someone in to push Vettel the better

Sorry but Webber is probably one of the best drivers to not win a WDC yet. He's quick and always has been quick. Can you recall where he finished in his first race.... I can.
Webber on a good day is quicker and more consistent than Massa on a good day. On a bad Day Webber is much better.
There is little doubt that Webber would have also won the 2009 WDC if he had switched seats with Button. They are very similar. Hell, if he did not have Vettel as a team mate in 2010, he would have probably won that title.

All of them (Jenson, Mark and pre-2009 Felipe) are a force to be reckoned with on their day. What seperates the big three from them is how often 'their day' comes (fewer) and how they perform when it's not their day (slightly to notably lesser).

Usually if it's Jenson/Mark/Felipe's day and they win, Sebastian/Fernando/Lewis are a close 2nd or 3rd. If it's Sebastian/Fernando/Lewis' day, Jenson/Mark/Felipe are on the other end of the track.

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raymondu999
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Re: The situation with Mark Webbers KERS....

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Raptor22 wrote:Sorry but Webber is probably one of the best drivers to not win a WDC yet. He's quick and always has been quick. Can you recall where he finished in his first race.... I can.
Webber on a good day is quicker and more consistent than Massa on a good day. On a bad Day Webber is much better.
Agreed. But I don't think his first race is a good barometer, with something like 14 retirements on the day.

A better barometer is his 2003/2004 qualifying. For example:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIc93GCzR-s[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMh2YjiYUpU[/youtube]
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