Mercedes AMG F1 W04

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Mercedes Hungary FW update analysis from GA.


via AutoSport

[Emerson.F]

Some pics from Hungary

[smlbstcbr]

Intriguing... we have until Spa to speculate what that thing is in the Mercedes' rim. By looking at photographs, it is a quite deep groove. Probably it is just a seat for a seal.

[theformula]

About this whole mercedes overheat their rear tyres thing - Could it be that they are not producing enough downforce at the rear of the car relative to the front? As it has been said by numerous "techy" people (eg. gary anderson, mark hughes) that merc have a strong front end and because of this strong front end the rear of the car is unable to keep up and therefore the rear wheels slide and more heat builds up. I think they counteracted this slightly by having less front end in hungary but whether doing this for the rest of the races in 2013 is favourable is questionable as they may not always get the balance right. So could part of the solution to their tyre woes be producing more rear downforce?

[GrandAxe]

About this whole mercedes overheat their rear tyres thing - Could it be that they are not producing enough downforce at the rear of the car relative to the front? As it has been said by numerous "techy" people (eg. gary anderson, mark hughes) that merc have a strong front end and because of this strong front end the rear of the car is unable to keep up and therefore the rear wheels slide and more heat builds up. I think they counteracted this slightly by having less front end in hungary but whether doing this for the rest of the races in 2013 is favourable is questionable as they may not always get the balance right. So could part of the solution to their tyre woes be producing more rear downforce?

A counter argument is that Mercs front end is so good, because of its unconventional FRIC suspension which ensures that it both doesn't dive under braking and remains aerodynamically stable under cornering.
From the huge amounts of rake they run, its clear that the car does not lack rear downforce and since it doesn't spin its wheels into corners, there also isn't an imbalance between front bite and rear downforce.

My guess is that the details of the FRIC system are so unconventional that they cannot employ the same cooling techniques available to other teams and so have continued to suffer for a few seasons now.

[crbassassin]

If it´s just a sticker, what purpose would that fill?
I´ve zoomed in on the big picture and it looks like a cavity to me.

Perhaps its because mercedes is having problem warming the rear tires. The black strip is a way to crate a next to ideal black body to absorb the heat generated by the rear brakes. The amount of heat the wheel can take in is simply a function of the width of the strip.

[Matt Somers]

I understand that people still want this to be an aperture in the rim but I just don't see it, especially when the front is designed with exactly the same bead/lips



I have the advantage of the full hi res images so can zoom much closer and there are imperfections in the black strip that I don't think you would have if it were a solid cut out and IMO point more towards a coating/tape etc...



The beads/lips are new, no two ways about it (as I have shown in the article I linked back to earlier in the thread) The beads are undoubtedly there as a way of helping to expand the surface area of the rim in that region as I'd suggest the teams continuous use of IR equipment has shown that's the area of the tyre they wish to cool (Lest we forget that Mercedes are a team that have shown perhaps the harshest thermal degradation so far this season). The problem is obviously exacerbated on the rear wheels and so the use of the coating/tape/paint (whatever it may be) between the beads is being used to further reduce temperature in that region.

(As we have all learnt before: When is a hole, not a hole. When is an image angle causing something to look asymmetric. These are all things we don't have the privilege to see 1st hand (maybe not next season for me, fingers crossed) and are reliant on collating information from the best images we have to hand.

[thomin]

About this whole mercedes overheat their rear tyres thing - Could it be that they are not producing enough downforce at the rear of the car relative to the front? As it has been said by numerous "techy" people (eg. gary anderson, mark hughes) that merc have a strong front end and because of this strong front end the rear of the car is unable to keep up and therefore the rear wheels slide and more heat builds up. I think they counteracted this slightly by having less front end in hungary but whether doing this for the rest of the races in 2013 is favourable is questionable as they may not always get the balance right. So could part of the solution to their tyre woes be producing more rear downforce?

The way I understood the problem was that because of the good front end down-force the Mercedes can turn quicker, meaning that they can accelerate earlier out of corners which means that the side load on the rear tires increases. That combined with the stiff construction of the 2013 tires led to the overheating issues.

[holeindalip]

That sounds good in theory but 2013 isn't the only year they have had overheating rear tires 2012,2011

[turbof1]

Compared to last year they are in a much better situation. Also to remember is that they learned that reducing front wing downforce isn't solving the problem. This year they tried smaller solutions, and they are stacking up.

Interesting that they are keeping the sensor on top of the cascade during qualy and race. Expect that to be further integrated on future races, to remove the small drag penalty, help flow conditioning and maybe even downforce creation.

What I do find odd is that they keep that typical "double endplate" design in their front wing. It has been there since 2009. Other teams tried it, and discarded it, opting for the "one piece" endplate with a small inwards vent in it. I wonder what the reasoning is behind it. The ordinary endplate bleeds a bit of air from the endplate to the inside of the front wing elements to help keeping airflow stable and clean. Mercedes look like doing the opposite, bleeding air from inside the wing to outside the endplate. Why?

One last thing: the detailing if the gurney tab placement is astonishing. Even at the very upperback corner of the endplate they placed a small piece on it. It tells me that they have a near perfect correlati between cfd, windtunnel and realtime, because they know exactly where the boundary layer is giving problems, and needs cleaning up.

[marcush.]

not that i want to spit in your soup ,but there are obvious and not so obvious limits what one could do with the rim ....you need to be able to mount the tyre obviously and one thing you need for this is a deep bed otherwise no chance to get the tyre over the rim horn .I have difficulties to see any useful packaging space within a 13" wheel setup to make room for a
double wall hollow rim design and it would be rather obvious in a very high rim horn or very much tapering visible in the rim bed don´t you think ?

but:

[OO7]

I've just re-watched the British Grand Prix. Nico pits at the end of lap 42 and during this time there is footage of a mechanic holding a new left rear wheel. As the mechanic holds wheel small movements of it allow sunlight to glint off its inside edge and for a brief moment the light touches the black strip. It becomes quite clear the strip isn't a cavity.

[smlbstcbr]

I've just re-watched the British Grand Prix. Nico pits at the end of lap 42 and during this time there is footage of a mechanic holding a new left rear wheel. As the mechanic holds wheel small movements of it allow sunlight to glint off its inside edge and for a brief moment the light touches the black strip. It becomes quite clear the strip isn't a cavity.

I agree with this, here's a very nice video of the pit stop practice of the team at Canada. Plenty of chances for seeing the rims. Particularly, 2:07, the thing is a groove, with something plastic inside:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzOdmKYp ... MA&index=1[/youtube]

[NathanOlder]

I've just re-watched the British Grand Prix. Nico pits at the end of lap 42 and during this time there is footage of a mechanic holding a new left rear wheel. As the mechanic holds wheel small movements of it allow sunlight to glint off its inside edge and for a brief moment the light touches the black strip. It becomes quite clear the strip isn't a cavity.

I agree with this, here's a very nice video of the pit stop practice of the team at Canada. Plenty of chances for seeing the rims. Particularly, 2:07, the thing is a groove, with something plastic inside:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzOdmKYp ... MA&index=1

As far as im aware, thats not Canada ? Also, isnt this "hole" debate about wether its a black stick on strip (like the ones run by other teams on the rims or hubs) or a hole in the rim. Im not saying that its one or the other, i just think as this is earlier in the season, maybe they only introduced the cavity in the heat of hungary ? so looking to the canadian or british GP's wouldnt show us anything. Also the slot it there to help with the over heating, so I doubt you would see any slot in this video as they are not dry tyres. So maybe wouldnt need it in there anyway.

[Multiplex]

My conclusion is it's a strip of tape or paint too... That image although enlarged doesn't show the full extent of the imperfections near the edge if it were an aperture...

My 2p's on the subject...

http://somersf1.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/ ... trick.html

Totally agree with you Matt, and add this photo. It might help you figure out who still insists
watch the yellow line

http://www.zaslike.com/

Nice Picture off the rim ,
It looks like nobody want to see what is going on ?
Anyway , I will not post here anymore , it was a nice conversation here