Alternatives to tires

[Vladmir123]

Hello everyone,

I am new here and joined so as to kinda learn more from the various mins here. And having a forum such with people such as you'll really pushes the boundaries of learning.

A query that has been bothering me for some time .. Tires in their most basic form have been used for many years now. They operate on the basic principle of inter conversion of slip angle and cornering force and as more slip angle is produced, cornering force varies. Isn't this quite an inefficient way to move ? Why hasn't anyone tried devising a new method to get the car moving ? Surely there could be something if worked on which replaces the loss due to slip angle and still gets maneuvering possible ?

[Jersey Tom]

Isn't this quite an inefficient way to move ?

Why would it be? I'm not following your line of reasoning here...

[Nando]

Next step would be something along the lines of "anti-gravity" with no friction at all.
But that sort of thing not even on the horizon yet. Officially at least.

[turbof1]

Next step would be something along the lines of "anti-gravity" with no friction at all.
But that sort of thing not even on the horizon yet. Officially at least.

That would be something like maglev
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev

[Nando]

Next step would be something along the lines of "anti-gravity" with no friction at all.
But that sort of thing not even on the horizon yet. Officially at least.

That would be something like maglev
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev

Not really.

Maglev is dependent on tracks, you can´t use magnets on regular roads for example.
I guess you could make a whole track of magnets but it seems quite expensive and very limited.

I´m thinking something along the lines of this,
http://www.keshefoundation.org/applicat ... ation.html

Plasma reactors essentially.

[Tim.Wright]

These do a pretty good job of eliminating evil slip angles

[turbof1]

You could see the maglev principle as a predecessor to what is subscribed on that page, with the whole principle miniaturised, build completely inside the car and powered by a much better energy source. Essentially, humanity does not have the means or technology to develop such systems, yet.

[Vladmir123]

Isn't this quite an inefficient way to move ?

Why would it be? I'm not following your line of reasoning here...

Its just that as your slip angle rises, cornering force reduces. And using friction to propel something isn't the best way anyway . The amount of energy lost using the adhesion of rubber and due to rolling friction according to me is immense. Plus while cornering you always tend to lose a certain amount og force and energy due to creation of slip angles. (Please correct me if im wrong)

[Vladmir123]

Next step would be something along the lines of "anti-gravity" with no friction at all.
But that sort of thing not even on the horizon yet. Officially at least.

That would be something like maglev
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev

Not really.

Maglev is dependent on tracks, you can´t use magnets on regular roads for example.
I guess you could make a whole track of magnets but it seems quite expensive and very limited.

I´m thinking something along the lines of this,
http://www.keshefoundation.org/applicat ... ation.html

Plasma reactors essentially.

That is just awesome !!!

[Greg Locock]

Its just that as your slip angle rises, cornering force reduces.... (Please correct me if im wrong)

No, the lateral forces increases with slip angle up to a maximum and then falls off until at a slip angle of 90 degrees there is zero lateral force, but an awful lot of longitudinal!

[Lycoming]

Its just that as your slip angle rises, cornering force reduces. And using friction to propel something isn't the best way anyway . The amount of energy lost using the adhesion of rubber and due to rolling friction according to me is immense. Plus while cornering you always tend to lose a certain amount og force and energy due to creation of slip angles. (Please correct me if im wrong)

sounds like this is what you're looking for:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... srapid.jpg

Friction is not really a propulsion mechanism; the motor does that, the tire is just a reaction point that essentially gives the motor something to push against using friction. Solution to that would be an engine that propels the vehicle by thrust. Such as a maglev. Or one of these...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _front.jpg

[raymondu999]

Lycoming, I think the OP meant tyres as lateral propulsion of the car (cornering) as opposed to delivering drive torque.

[Tommy Cookers]

modern (race) tyres have a 'max cornering' slip angle of about 5 deg
doesn't a small angle proclaim rather good efficiency ?
(this efficiency is supported by consideration and measurement of centripetal and tangential forces)
60 years ago this slip angle was 20 deg, and cornering efficiency correspondingly much less

wheels and tyres are efficient
at useful speed the aerodynamic drag of the vehicle is higher than the mechanical drag from its tyres
cornering takes work, however achieved (said I.Newton ?)

[g-force_addict]

Hello everyone,

I am new here and joined so as to kinda learn more from the various mins here. And having a forum such with people such as you'll really pushes the boundaries of learning.

A query that has been bothering me for some time .. Tires in their most basic form have been used for many years now. They operate on the basic principle of inter conversion of slip angle and cornering force and as more slip angle is produced, cornering force varies. Isn't this quite an inefficient way to move ? Why hasn't anyone tried devising a new method to get the car moving ? Surely there could be something if worked on which replaces the loss due to slip angle and still gets maneuvering possible ?

You can still use tires while having camber as the main cornering force generator
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mercedes/2 ... r1214.html

[Tommy Cookers]

interesting link !
Millikan Snr built a similar car about 50 years ago (using motorcycle tyres and motorcycle lean/camber angles)