2013 Bahrain GP - Sakhir

[Mika1]

I love back-to-back weekends.

[Nomore]

but I doubt your "knowledge" would have said Pastor Maldonado to be the winner of the Spanish Grand Prix either.

Please point to me when i said that i'm able to predict any gp of every year ? Or all my predictions are 100% true...
Or are you linking that if someone is making predicitons it should have predicted everything before ?
Really but what is the connection with predicting Ferrari as favorite in the Bahrain GP with predicting Maldonado's win in Barcelona...anyway my prediction was Lotus as the favorite before the GP and i wasn't completely wrong.

irrelevant. Your assertion was that Ferrari was faster - not that Ferrari should have won. Very different. Nor do I believe the Ferrari was quick enough to produce such a gap - and not that the gap would have been enough to cover the 12s gap to Raikkonen, plus the overtake.

Now i don't know how to say but read : http://www.yallaf1.com/2013/03/21/ferra ... ims-brawn/

Is your word against Ross Brawn. A technical director that has won 9 WCC with 3 different teams. You called me that i dont give scientific facts same can be applied to Brawn since we share the same opinion.

We have to agree that you also call Brawn without scientific facts too. We do agree on this ?..if we have to be consistent... or otherwise you can give the opinion of another 9 times WCC that said: Ferrari wasn't fastest In Melbourne... at least to be in pair

Traction is not a key performance differentiator in China.

True it wasn't important in China, but it was in Australia where Ferrari based in mine and Ross's opinions was the fastest car...

and even the differences can suite very well Ferrari, like can suite other cars too.


Of course

Im not saying that it will suit Ferrari, nor that it will suit RB...I'm just saying that in paper what we have seen till now Ferrari is the favorite followed by Lotus.
I DONT know who will be at home in this track, you are making an assumption that "RB will be at home". We will see it can very well suit RB, but it can also put them in trouble...and then "Red Bull home" will become laughable
...Or your wishful desire is that it can be "Red Bull home"...

To says a car is good in this type of conditions or in this types of circuits first we have to build a database with some races (at least 8-9 normal races) and then we can make conclusions


Agreed.

Problem is that you are trying to make conclusions like this car will be better in hot or cold or for this type of tracks or another, since we dont have yet a DB. I'm just making a prediciton in what we have seen till now, not a conclusions...

I don't know but there is a big difference between conclusions and predictions.

Conclusions should be followed with a mathematical / proof fact (to have a value),If no mathematical / proof fact is obtained conclusions have no value.
Predictions are based in what happened before and could not contain mathematical / proof facts. Predictions are allowed to be wrong, Conclusions not.

I just made a prediction based on the dry races, i could be wrong... You are making conclusions that should be followed with mathematical proof (RB to outperform everyone in Bahrain) if not yours are wrong, let apart that there isn't any proof till now that Bahrain will suit RB.

"Dry" does not equate to "normal," nor "relatable."

Maybe i should have made clear my point of what i consider a "normal race"...In my personal view, i call a race a "normal race" when it is not affected by rain and safety car( due to incidents or rain ), independently how the surface of a track could be (abrasive or smooth ),how the sky is (blue or not blue) , how the humor of different team is (like it or not like it) or whatever. The only two things that can stop execution of a normal race ( in my opinion )are Rain and Safety car.
For wet races or races affected by rain it's a different discussions

What we do know is that the RBR completed the dry portion of the Malaysian GP the quickest

That is what you know, i know something else.. Lotus and Massa were in traffic and Massa got the the 20 sec gap in the intermediate conditions (which he don't usually feel comfortable)
In the two races that Alonso and Massa have finished the distance was +21 in Australia and + 41 in China, in Malaysia Massa finished a +25, presumably had Alonso finished the race or had Kimi qualified better probably RB may not exist as winner in that gp.
Here you have Eric Boullier telling that malaysian Gp was not a true order: http://www.crash.net/f1/news/189459/1/b ... ntial.html

Based on the data we have now - I don't think we can call anyone a favorite for Bahrain.

With this i agree, not with the statement but with the form.I take this as a predictions and you are right to do it by saying that with what we saw till now im not ready to make predicitons ,is acceptable.... Anyway i think that my prediction is that Ferrari will be the favorite followed closely by Lotus.
In what i don't agree are conclusions, that this track will suite Red Bull or this temp will suite this or other teams.

Why not? If you've ever been to Malaysia - it's hot even when it rains- Almost comparable to summer in places like Milan.

It could be hot but the track is wet, i'm not interested how the conditions are for Malaysians people (i know is damm hot), but how the conditions are in the contact point between tyres and track..and at the start it was wet.

I'm sorry mate - but a lot of your post sounds to me like wishful thinking rather than a truly scientific observation/extrapolation.

It's your opinion and honestly i'm not interested to change that, like i have mines.

What i find a little bit surprising is that when you accuse someone for wishful thinking rather than a truly scientific observation/extrapolation you should provide to him these scientific observation/extrapolation. But what i see is :

"it's hot even when it rains. Almost comparable to summer in places like Milan"
"Dry" does not equate to "normal," nor "relatable."
" but I doubt your "knowledge" would have said Pastor Maldonado to be the winner of the Spanish Grand Prix either."
"Taking into account decreasing fuel loads - if we normalise the fuel effect at 1 tenth per lap"
"Agreed. Though it is of course "China" and not "china." "

Im not an aerodynamics neither in mechanical arts nor a cfd engineer what im is PhD candidate in computer science, here i am because i'm F1 fan and i like technical explanation from those who have more knowledge than me in these fields, i'm always open to learn, and i have learn new things in the cars threads, but sorry to point it out but in our discussion i have not learn anything new, anyway you can think the same and i respect that's your opinion and thanks for the time spent in my discussions.

[iotar__]

Changed to Medium and Hard.

I'm actually seriously disappointed. While Qually was a bit dull, the tyre choice in china made for an excellent race, and frankly, I'd rather an exciting race than an exciting Qually.

I sympathise for your loss mate. Personally I rather enjoy the prospect of the races being done on Everlast rubber.

And of course it has nothing to do with which driver/team benefits from it? If all cars' tyre degradation was identical you wouldn't notice a difference in "racing". What exactly happened in China? Mercedes lost a bit on softs, had to pit earlier, were a bit behind later, RB/Vettel messed up qualifying on mediums, probably could have ended up higher. The rest was more or less normal.

I don't mind either way, with Bahrain it might be for technical reasons, it was the first race with softs, they're gathering the data so there might be some science behind the change. The problem is it's all mixed, marketing noise and lobbying with actual reasons.

[raymondu999]

And of course it has nothing to do with which driver/team benefits from it? If all cars' tyre degradation was identical you wouldn't notice a difference in "racing".

I couldn't care less, really. In an ideal world (which it isn't) I'd rather have tyres that had absolutely 0 degradation and wear - though such a tyre would be impossible in the real world. Tyres are to me simply a necessary evil in terms of connecting the car to the ground. The less we hear of them is, in my personal (and I stress *personal*) view, the better. I'm not a fan of this whole business of "in/out of the window" etc. To be quite frank, I'd take a 0-pitstop, 0-overtake race if it meant we'd see drivers pushing flat out, qualifying-style, on their heavy fuel loads.

[turbof1]

And of course it has nothing to do with which driver/team benefits from it? If all cars' tyre degradation was identical you wouldn't notice a difference in "racing".

But that's not the case. Each driver and car has its own unique characteristics, which influence the wear pattern of the tyre, which is a shame: a driver that has a more agressive drivestyle and who because of his drivestyle is able to drive faster, should not hold back because the tyrewear brings more disadvantage then the advantage of being faster, and vice versa of course.

A bit of degredation is good as long as it does not makes a difference between agressive drivestyle and a conservative drivestyle. When all the drivers have to drive target laptimezs, you missed the goal. Period.

[Juzh]

I just think there shouldn't be such a big performance related issue (tyres) over which teams have no control of.

[korzeniow]

I just think there shouldn't be such a big performance related issue (tyres) over which teams have no control of.

Why would they don't have control over how they use the tyres?

[ChrisDanger]

I'm not really bothered either way if the tyres last 8 or 80 laps. There are pros and cons to both. But interestingly this article (http://www.yallaf1.com/2011/05/17/pirel ... om-now-on/) says:

...this weekend’s Spanish Grand Prix will see [Pirelli] roll out of a more durable hard tyre.

Hembrey explained, “The new tyre – which we have tested extensively – reduces degradation and improves tyre wear.

[boyracer94]

I'm not really bothered either way if the tyres last 8 or 80 laps. There are pros and cons to both. But interestingly this article (http://www.yallaf1.com/2011/05/17/pirel ... om-now-on/) says:

...this weekend’s Spanish Grand Prix will see [Pirelli] roll out of a more durable hard tyre.

Hembrey explained, “The new tyre – which we have tested extensively – reduces degradation and improves tyre wear.

That article is from 2011

[ChrisDanger]

oh well...

[Darknight]

And there is a thunderstorm in Bahrain. Lightning, rolling thunder and all.

[Maelstrom]

What are the odds? A wet race in Bahrain? This smells like Bernie's doing.

[stefan_]

Heikki will drive for Caterham during FP1. He returns at the team as one of the two reserve drivers.

Full story here

[CHT]

Heikki will drive for Caterham during FP1. He returns at the team as one of the two reserve drivers.

Full story here

I wont be surprise if Heikki will take over the role as driver after Bahrain. With QPR destined for relegation, it will be another big blow to Tony's pocket if they lose out to Marussia this season.

[stefan_]

+

Two DRS zones for Bahrain Grand Prix

Two DRS zones will be in place at this weekend's Bahrain Grand Prix for the first time in its history, with governing body the FIA choosing to add to the pit-straight area.

The first detection point has been placed at Turn 9, before the activation mark on the exit of Turn 10. The second detection line comes under braking for the penultimate corner, Turn 14, with the activation area situated shortly before the start-finish line.

As per the regulations, DRS can be used in the allocated zones during practice and qualifying, while in the race a driver must be within one second of a car ahead.
via GP Update